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Old 08-31-2016, 08:14 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by rbryan4 View Post
Thanks for the photo Cathy. I don't think it's mislabeled now that I see yours. Looks like the 17B in the photo above doesn't have the transfer switch like yours, so, 5 circuit breakers instead of 6. Looks like the bottom breaker should be a 15 amp or split breaker instead of a single 30?

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Well, I don't know about that on ours. It is a transfer switch for all outlets.
But it would be awfully odd for them to have a 30 for the water heater. Doubt they do.

Also, when I looked at ours, although you probably cannot tell, seemed as if we have one label missing on the right. Which means that some others may be in the wrong place. And maybe theirs is wrong.
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Old 08-31-2016, 08:17 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by float5 View Post
Well, I don't know about that on ours. It is a transfer switch for all outlets.
But it would be awfully odd for them to have a 30 for the water heater.

Also, when I looked at ours, although you probably cannot tell, seemed as if we have one label missing on the right. Which means that some others may be in the wrong place. And maybe theirs is wrong.
I don't think any labels are missing on the right. The label there doesn't line up directly adjacent to the fuses, like the labels for the breakers do, but is used as a numbered reference.


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Old 08-31-2016, 08:23 PM   #53
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I don't think any labels are missing on the right. The label there doesn't line up directly adjacent to the fuses, like the labels for the breakers do, but is used as a numbered reference.


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Oh, good. I will have to look again when in the trailer.
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Old 08-31-2016, 08:29 PM   #54
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Transfer switch, aha! We had ETI add an inverter and transfer switch last year. Maybe they didn't update the labels on the main panel?
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Old 08-31-2016, 08:31 PM   #55
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Time for white out.
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Old 08-31-2016, 08:32 PM   #56
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Transfer switch, aha! We had ETI add an inverter and transfer switch last year. Maybe they didn't update the labels on the main panel?
Well, that would explain it, but then, which circuit feeds the water heater? Gotta be one of the 15s?

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Old 08-31-2016, 08:37 PM   #57
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Transfer switch, aha! We had ETI add an inverter and transfer switch last year. Maybe they didn't update the labels on the main panel?
Yep, I'd say you are missing a label like we have.
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Old 08-31-2016, 08:51 PM   #58
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Yes, could be a mislabeling. Here is ours.
Okay, the idea is not that a breaker has the wrong amp rating label on it, but that the circuit description label is incorrect. Ah...

Cathy, yours is the wrong size of breaker, too, unless your panel has different specs from those published for the 8955. Although the transfer switch may be able to handle 30 amps, and the wiring from panel to transfer switch may be appropriate for 30 amp (it looks like it is in the photo Cathy provided in a previous discussion), the panel is not supposed to have this size of branch circuit breaker in it. Sorry I didn't catch the rating issue when this photo of the WFCO panel was previously posted.

Other than the questionable size of the 30-amp breaker, Cathy's panel is appropriately configured.
  • The main breaker brings in shore power,
  • one branch circuit distributes power to the transfer switch (the switch provides power to the outlets from either this circuit or the inverter, through a second panel), and
  • the rest of the branch circuits distribute power to the stuff which cannot be operated from inverter power:
    • converter (because that would be pointless),
    • refrigerator (because you use propane instead),
    • water heater because it would be too much power and you use propane instead, and
    • air conditioner (which needs more power than the inverter can provide).
So the "transfer switch" circuit is only supplying the outlets connected to circuits which come from a small second distribution panel (or "load center"). If the load of the extra distribution panel (subject of a previous discussion) is more than can be supported by a 20-amp circuit, it is not supposed to be handled by this WFCO panel (according to the installation manual downloaded from WFCO).

Quote:
Originally Posted by rbryan4 View Post
Thanks for the photo Cathy. I don't think it's mislabeled now that I see yours. Looks like the 17B in the photo above doesn't have the transfer switch like yours. Looks like the bottom breaker should be a 15 amp or split breaker instead of a single 30?
Yes, whether the device in one slot handles one circuit or is split into two, each breaker must not exceed 20 amps (according to the installation manual) and the water heater should have a 15-amp breaker (which Cathy's panel has).


It looks like wide 30-amp breakers are used in the bottom position, to supply the transfer switch; this is probably the intended design, with suitable gauge of wire used. If this 30-amp breaker was used even for other configurations - perhaps whenever only 5 breakers (main plus four branches) are needed - there could be a lot of these and some (such as any supplying a water heater) would likely inappropriately rated for the wiring.

If we're really lucky, perhaps the WFCO documentation is wrong, and a 30-amp breaker really is okay in their panel if it is the wide type, and the 20-amp limit only applied to the half-width breakers (although the main breaker is a half-width 30 amp ) If that's the case - and it's only wishful thinking - and Scott's panel is mislabelled, then we would be down to no wiring issues.
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Old 08-31-2016, 08:58 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sclifrickson View Post
Transfer switch, aha! We had ETI add an inverter and transfer switch last year. Maybe they didn't update the labels on the main panel?
If that's what it is, then...

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Originally Posted by tdf-texas View Post
Time for white out.
I agree - but I would make a new stick-on label to cover the whole mess.

It's also time to flip each breaker and see what goes off... remembering to do this with the inverter turned off so it doesn't confuse things. The water heater is hard to check this way, but if only one breaker doesn't supply anything else...
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Old 08-31-2016, 09:24 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
Okay, the idea is not that a breaker has the wrong amp rating label on it, but that the circuit description label is incorrect. Ah...

Cathy, yours is the wrong size of breaker, too, unless your panel has different specs from those published for the 8955. Although the transfer switch may be able to handle 30 amps, and the wiring from panel to transfer switch may be appropriate for 30 amp (it looks like it is in the photo Cathy provided in a previous discussion), the panel is not supposed to have this size of branch circuit breaker in it. Sorry I didn't catch the rating issue when this photo of the WFCO panel was previously posted.

Other than the questionable size of the 30-amp breaker, Cathy's panel is appropriately configured.
  • The main breaker brings in shore power,
  • one branch circuit distributes power to the transfer switch (the switch provides power to the outlets from either this circuit or the inverter, through a second panel), and
  • the rest of the branch circuits distribute power to the stuff which cannot be operated from inverter power:
    • converter (because that would be pointless),
    • refrigerator (because you use propane instead),
    • water heater because it would be too much power and you use propane instead, and
    • air conditioner (which needs more power than the inverter can provide).
So the "transfer switch" circuit is only supplying the outlets connected to circuits which come from a small second distribution panel (or "load center"). If the load of the extra distribution panel (subject of a previous discussion) is more than can be supported by a 20-amp circuit, it is not supposed to be handled by this WFCO panel (according to the installation manual downloaded from WFCO).


Yes, whether the device in one slot handles one circuit or is split into two, each breaker must not exceed 20 amps (according to the installation manual) and the water heater should have a 15-amp breaker (which Cathy's panel has).


It looks like wide 30-amp breakers are used in the bottom position, to supply the transfer switch; this is probably the intended design, with suitable gauge of wire used. If this 30-amp breaker was used even for other configurations - perhaps whenever only 5 breakers (main plus four branches) are needed - there could be a lot of these and some (such as any supplying a water heater) would likely inappropriately rated for the wiring.

If we're really lucky, perhaps the WFCO documentation is wrong, and a 30-amp breaker really is okay in their panel if it is the wide type, and the 20-amp limit only applied to the half-width breakers (although the main breaker is a half-width 30 amp ) If that's the case - and it's only wishful thinking - and Scott's panel is mislabelled, then we would be down to no wiring issues.

The electrical that we are looking at may be misleading, as with the 30-amp on the label. There could be two 15-amps in the back related to the transfer switch but I really wouldn't know any more what is back there. I am sure that ETI can easily clear that up, or even someone here who also has the transfer switch.
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