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08-31-2016, 10:05 PM
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#61
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Baytown, Texas
Trailer: 2017 21' Escape - upgraded version
Posts: 2,697
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P
Although the transfer switch may be able to handle 30 amps, and the wiring from panel to transfer switch may be appropriate for 30 amp, the panel is not supposed to have this size of branch circuit breaker in it.
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If the main circuit breaker and a branch circuit breaker are the same size, you have what called a race condition. In the event that more than 30 amps is pulled through the transfer switch breaker (30 amp branch), does the branch breaker or the main trip first?
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08-31-2016, 10:09 PM
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#62
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Baytown, Texas
Trailer: 2017 21' Escape - upgraded version
Posts: 2,697
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdf-texas
How much trouble am I looking at to run a wire from the monitor panel to the SW6DE? From looking at the Friday pictures, it seems that I would have to pull the refrigerator and remove the back panels in all the bottom cabinets to be able to route the wire.
I've turned in my build sheet already and I don't think I could stand to hear another NO by asking Escape to run it.
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Not that I mind - I am having as much fun as the rest but can we get back to the thread for a minute. Has anyone run wiring in a 21' from the monitor panel to the hot water heater and what did you have to do?
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08-31-2016, 11:56 PM
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#63
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: North Van., British Columbia
Trailer: 2014 Escape 19, sold; 2019 Escape 21, Sept. 2019
Posts: 8,743
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sclifrickson
I have a question about this. I checked my breaker box and the 120V circuit for my 2-way SW6DE water heater is on a 30A breaker. I am not an electrician but doesn't that mean that this mod should use a switch rated to 30A as well?
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As others have mentioned, that seems a little odd.
My water heater circuit is a dedicated 15 amp breaker.
Ron
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09-01-2016, 05:15 PM
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#64
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdf-texas
If the main circuit breaker and a branch circuit breaker are the same size, you have what called a race condition. In the event that more than 30 amps is pulled through the transfer switch breaker (30 amp branch), does the branch breaker or the main trip first?
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Yes, the result is indeterminate, but whichever breaker trips the result is a safe situation, so I don't know if it's a big issue... but it may be a reason to not allow a 30 amp branch circuit breaker. If that's the reason, 25 amps would seem to be a reasonable compromise, but the WFCO manual says 20 amps is the maximum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron in BC
As others have mentioned, that seems a little odd.
My water heater circuit is a dedicated 15 amp breaker.
Ron
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30 amps for the water heater would be odd - I think we've narrowed it down to circuit labelling which no longer corresponds to the actual wiring. The consensus seems to be 15 A to be switched for the water heater.
Ron, if you add that A/C later, unless they allow another breaker position, you'll need to replace the bottom 15 A breaker with a 15/20 dual breaker (which is readily available).
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09-01-2016, 05:38 PM
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#65
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: North Van., British Columbia
Trailer: 2014 Escape 19, sold; 2019 Escape 21, Sept. 2019
Posts: 8,743
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P
Yes, the result is indeterminate, but whichever breaker trips the result is a safe situation, so I don't know if it's a big issue... but it may be a reason to not allow a 30 amp branch circuit breaker. If that's the reason, 25 amps would seem to be a reasonable compromise, but the WFCO manual says 20 amps is the maximum.
30 amps for the water heater would be odd - I think we've narrowed it down to circuit labelling which no longer corresponds to the actual wiring. The consensus seems to be 15 A to be switched for the water heater.
Ron, if you add that A/C later, unless they allow another breaker position, you'll need to replace the bottom 15 A breaker with a 15/20 dual breaker (which is readily available).
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Maybe some future owner might add a rooftop a/c and make that breaker change. But not me, I'm happy with my once in a while use $88 portable unit.
Going back to the OP's photo, it appears that the second breaker is indeed a 30 amp breaker and not just labelled as one. If this is the case and the cable going from it to the w/h is less than 10 ga. then it is over fused and the circuit breaker size should be reduced to match the cable size.
Ron
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09-01-2016, 06:09 PM
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#66
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron in BC
Going back to the OP's photo, it appears that the second breaker is indeed a 30 amp breaker and not just labelled as one. If this is the case and the cable going from it to the w/h is less than 10 ga. then it is over fused and the circuit breaker size should be reduced to match the cable size.
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Yes, but Cathy - knowing that Scott had an inverter retrofitted - realized that all of the handwritten labels shown in his photo are wrong (they describe the original configuration, not the post-inverter configuration), so that the 30 amp breaker at the bottom actually goes to the transfer switch (with suitable 10-gauge cable), not to the water heater.
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09-01-2016, 07:07 PM
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#67
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: North Van., British Columbia
Trailer: 2014 Escape 19, sold; 2019 Escape 21, Sept. 2019
Posts: 8,743
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Well Ron's glad that Brian knew that Cathy knew that Scott's label was wrong.
Ron
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09-01-2016, 07:22 PM
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#68
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Trailer: 2017 Escape 5.0 TA
Posts: 15,532
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And I know nuthink!
__________________
2017 Escape 5.0 TA
2015 Ford F150 Lariat 3.5L EcoBoost
2009 Escape 19 (previous)
“Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.” — Abraham Lincoln
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10-01-2017, 04:42 PM
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#69
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Retired from Dallas & Full-Timing, Texas
Trailer: 2017 21' Escape as of 01/16/17
Posts: 1,312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdf-texas
Not that I mind - I am having as much fun as the rest but can we get back to the thread for a minute. Has anyone run wiring in a 21' from the monitor panel to the hot water heater and what did you have to do?
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Hi Tom! I still have this on my bucket list of things to do. But, i still cannot find that cool panel on eBay or Amazon. I, however, am not giving up!
Fred M.
__________________
Fred M.
"Whoever said retirement was overrated...
...never had an Escape"
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10-01-2017, 05:00 PM
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#70
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Oswego, New York
Trailer: 2017 Escape 21C, 2018 Ford F150
Posts: 5,363
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Dog
Hi Tom! I still have this on my bucket list of things to do. But, i still cannot find that cool panel on eBay or Amazon. I, however, am not giving up!
Fred M.
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Remember, you need the relay (or need to switch to the water heater with the built in relay. The switch in the panel in the early thread is a 12V device...
As to running the new wiring, it sure looks like a major project, although it might be easier if the refrigerator was pulled. Still a big job. For new builds, it might be worth asking if Escape will add the wiring.
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10-01-2017, 07:34 PM
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#71
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Trailer: 2017 Escape 5.0 TA
Posts: 15,532
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The panel with the 120V switch is a KIB M1086. I got this right from KIB. They sent me a panel earlier this year....the same one I already have. I just got around to looking at it and noticed this. They are sending me out the right one for free right away. Anyone want one just like the one they have? Anyone can order right from KIB if the want, the only PITA for me is they won't ship to Canada, so I have to have it shipped by someone else. I don't quite understand this.
I had Escape run a single wire from the panel to the electrical heater for the relay, so it will be easy for me to do the retrofit. Pulling the fridge is not too hard if needed though a second hand is nice, then running the wire would be easy peasy. You could run it through the upper cabinet, down the rear corner and to the heater too, but I think this might be just as tough.
__________________
2017 Escape 5.0 TA
2015 Ford F150 Lariat 3.5L EcoBoost
2009 Escape 19 (previous)
“Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.” — Abraham Lincoln
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08-12-2019, 07:30 PM
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#72
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Baytown, Texas
Trailer: 2017 21' Escape - upgraded version
Posts: 2,697
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Here is a link to Jim's post that lists where to get the KIB monitor panel
http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f3...tml#post226380
__________________
Normal people believe that if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Engineers believe in fixing it so that it never breaks.
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05-23-2021, 09:33 PM
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#73
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Houston, Texas
Trailer: 2022 5.0TA
Posts: 111
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Given the fear of burning out the 120V element, I wonder whether a hot tub timer switch might be helpful. I personally would not be worried about the propane use while hooked up.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LVTGKBR
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05-24-2021, 09:39 AM
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#74
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Oswego, New York
Trailer: 2017 Escape 21C, 2018 Ford F150
Posts: 5,363
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richm
Given the fear of burning out the 120V element, I wonder whether a hot tub timer switch might be helpful. I personally would not be worried about the propane use while hooked up.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LVTGKBR
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There is no need for a timer. The concern about burning out the 120V element is turning it on without water in the tank. It takes less than a minute to melt the heater element if it is not surrounded by water. If the tank is filled with water, it can remain on as long as you want (just like the one in your household electric water heater).
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05-27-2021, 12:13 PM
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#75
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: DFW, Texas
Trailer: 2018 21 Sept 7 2018
Posts: 1,073
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Reviving this thread. I finally got all the components together to do what TDF and others did. My issue is I don’t understand the electrical print showing where to hook up the wire you have to run to the new switch on the new panel. Can one of you that did this change please post a picture of the relay as you hooked it up so I can cross out this mod as done. Thank you for your help in advance.
David
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05-31-2021, 08:13 PM
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#76
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Trailer: 2017 Escape 5.0 TA
Posts: 15,532
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldtimer
Reviving this thread. I finally got all the components together to do what TDF and others did. My issue is I don’t understand the electrical print showing where to hook up the wire you have to run to the new switch on the new panel. Can one of you that did this change please post a picture of the relay as you hooked it up so I can cross out this mod as done. Thank you for your help in advance.
David
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You can jumper the negative from another negative at the panel and run a positive to the relay that activates the 120V AC. I could get a photo, but it would take me a few days as I am busy with other stuff and it would take some time as I would have to get to the water heater and pull the cover off where the relay is mounted. I should have taken a photo as I did the work, but........
The switch on the tank then stays on always as it is not now needed.
In my 19 I just switched the hot 120V lead to the water heater. That worked well too, but this is nicer. Here is the 10 year old post on that.
https://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f...itch-1165.html
__________________
2017 Escape 5.0 TA
2015 Ford F150 Lariat 3.5L EcoBoost
2009 Escape 19 (previous)
“Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.” — Abraham Lincoln
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