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Old 08-31-2016, 10:44 AM   #21
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Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if any work done like that, no matter how it is done, is said to void the warranty. (With the SW6DE, not the SW6DEL because they sell the SW6DEL)
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Old 08-31-2016, 10:53 AM   #22
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Since the relay is installed outside of the heater, it doesn't affect the warranty at all. You are not modifying the heater - just adding an external part. The only warranty problem would be with the replacement KIB panel and that would be with Escape.
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Old 08-31-2016, 10:56 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdf-texas View Post
Since the relay is installed outside of the heater, it doesn't affect the warranty at all. You are not modifying the heater - just adding an external part. The only warranty problem would be with the replacement KIB panel and that would be with Escape.
If it is connected to the heater, then they can probably say that it voids the warranty. I don't know if they say that though. Maybe not.

Freezing weather hoses are sold and those companies say that using any extension cord voids their warranty. That is not a change to their product either. Connecting something up to a product that the company says cannot be used with it often voids warranties. A lot of companies just do not allow any changes.
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Old 08-31-2016, 11:02 AM   #24
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Freezing weather hoses are sold and those companies say that using any extension cord voids their warranty. That is not a change to their product either.
That is because an extension cord causes a voltage drop and increased current - which can cause the device to fail.

Adding the relay cannot void the warranty unless the relay catches fire and burns the side of the heater (I plan to mount the relay in the same location as it's mounted on the SW6DEL). As the relay is the same one Surburban uses, that is unlikely.
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Old 08-31-2016, 11:15 AM   #25
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If the company says the warranty is void and will not fix the heater, not a big expense. People have made very minor additions or changes to their refrigerators only to find that the company said the warranty was void, and then they would not fix a non-working refrigerator.
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Old 08-31-2016, 01:31 PM   #26
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They are using the SW6DE. Maybe that is why they won't do the electric switches.
Thanks for the model confirmation. That's why Escape can't wire a 12V DC control switch for electric heating - the electric heating in this model is not controlled by a 12V DC circuit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdf-texas View Post
The other component I planned to install is the Suburban Water Heater Relay no. 232948 , Suburban Water Heater Relay, 232948

The relay connects between the 120v supply and the heater - see the wiring diagram for the 12v and 120v connections. This should meet any code requirements as it matches the SW6DEL.
Good find
Yes, I agree, that provides exactly the functionality of the SW6DEL with a SW6DE. It would allow you to use the integrated switch panel, and only require light-gauge 12V wiring to the panel location.

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Originally Posted by tdf-texas View Post
Since the relay is installed outside of the heater, it doesn't affect the warranty at all. You are not modifying the heater - just adding an external part. The only warranty problem would be with the replacement KIB panel and that would be with Escape.
I agree, and the same applies to a manual switch in the circuit. While Airxcel (Suburban) could make bizarre and irrational requirements for the circuit which supplies the water heater, they don't in the SW6DEL manual. This is their requirement, from the installation manual for the SWxDEL:
Quote:
The electrical connections must be made in accordance with local codes and regulations. In the absence of local codes and regulations, refer to the latest edition of the National Electrical Code NFPA 70. In Canada, the electrical installation should conform with CSA standard CAN/ CSA Z240.6.2-08/C22.2 No. 148-08. Electrical requirements for Recreational Vehicles and CSA C22.1 Canadian Electrical Code Part 1 when installing the unit in recreational vehicles and mobile homes respectively.
So use a proper switch, instead of just twisting the wires together when you want heat.
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Old 08-31-2016, 01:37 PM   #27
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" unless the relay catches fire and burns the side of the heater..." It does say made in China. who knows.
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Old 08-31-2016, 01:38 PM   #28
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Some companies will give you grief for just about anything.

Domestic refused to replace a bad thermostat in my RM 2510 refrigerator because I added an internal LED light strip. Not attached in any way to the works of the refrigerator (the strip is glued to the inside along the edge & a magnetic switch glued to the side & door). Power from a separate 12V circuit.

I probably could have fought it, but I was in a hurry & paid for the repair.

Oh, and as to adding an extension cord to the cold weather hose, any increased resistance will LOWER the current (it is a resistive load) so I suspect their concern is reduced wattage not providing enough heat to prevent freezing...
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Old 08-31-2016, 01:55 PM   #29
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I suspect that the extension cord concern is that an overloaded cord will overheat and cause a fire, which might be blamed on the device (in this case a heated hose)... but inadequate power could be a concern, too.

Apply this to the water heater: does the heater manufacturer specify the wire gauge, length, and type of switches or other devices for every step of the power path from the generating station to the input terminals of the heater? No - they say connect it to 120V AC power following appropriate standards, because as long as your circuit supplies power and doesn't burn up, it doesn't matter to them.

I agree that you could even just flip the breaker, but that's not very convenient and breakers wear out when used frequently as switches. I agree with the point which is simply that whatever is suitable in a 120V AC branch circuit can be ahead of the water heater, and that includes switches.

Add any reasonable switch you want to the circuit supplying the water heater, such as Jon's light switch, or the proposed relay.
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Old 08-31-2016, 01:58 PM   #30
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Oh, and as to adding an extension cord to the cold weather hose, any increased resistance will LOWER the current (it is a resistive load) so I suspect their concern is reduced wattage not providing enough heat to prevent freezing...
Oops, and I have a degree in Electrical Engineering. Basic Ohms law always trumps. I was thinking of an inductive load like a motor.
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Old 08-31-2016, 03:03 PM   #31
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Thanks for the model confirmation. That's why Escape can't wire a 12V DC control switch for electric heating - the electric heating in this model is not controlled by a 12V DC circuit.
That sounds like a good reason except for the fact that owners then put in their own switches for the electric as a mod. The question remains as to why Escape will not do the same thing some owners are doing.
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Old 08-31-2016, 03:37 PM   #32
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Quote:
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Thanks for the model confirmation. That's why Escape can't wire a 12V DC control switch for electric heating - the electric heating in this model is not controlled by a 12V DC circuit.
That sounds like a good reason except for the fact that owners then put in their own switches for the electric as a mod. The question remains as to why Escape will not do the same thing some owners are doing.
The owner mods are putting a switch in the 120V AC supply circuit; the owner can't control the SW6DE with a 12V circuit any more than Escape could.

I agree that the what owners are doing could be done by Escape as well. The relay and 12V circuit to a different meter/switch panel may be too much of a variation from the stock design, but adding a switch to the 120V supply circuit is seems quite reasonable; I don't know why Escape won't do it.

At the same time, if the switch is located in a reasonably accessible cabinet location, it would also be straightforward for the owner (or anyone who can work with household 120V wiring) to re-route the stock water heater circuit and add a switch... as has already been done.
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Old 08-31-2016, 05:42 PM   #33
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The inside switch is just an ordinary 120V AC switch with suitable capacity (which means a 15-amp 125V AC light switch) in the circuit which supplies the heater.

I have a question about this. I checked my breaker box and the 120V circuit for my 2-way SW6DE water heater is on a 30A breaker. I am not an electrician but doesn't that mean that this mod should use a switch rated to 30A as well?
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Old 08-31-2016, 05:55 PM   #34
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I have a simple solution, I leave my 120V switch on from spring to fall. Once your water system is charged the water heater will contain water, the water outlet is at the top of the tank so the 120V element will always stay submerged. The trick is remembering to turn the switch off, once a year in the fall when you drain the hot water tank. Then in the spring when you flush and charge the system turn the switch back on. Been doing this for years and never had a problem.
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Old 08-31-2016, 06:15 PM   #35
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I have a simple solution, I leave my 120V switch on from spring to fall. Once your water system is charged the water heater will contain water, the water outlet is at the top of the tank so the 120V element will always stay submerged. The trick is remembering to turn the switch off, once a year in the fall when you drain the hot water tank. Then in the spring when you flush and charge the system turn the switch back on. Been doing this for years and never had a problem.
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Old 08-31-2016, 06:17 PM   #36
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Quote:
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I have a question about this. I checked my breaker box and the 120V circuit for my 2-way SW6DE water heater is on a 30A breaker. I am not an electrician but doesn't that mean that this mod should use a switch rated to 30A as well?
A well informed person at ETI (the owner) told me that except for the A/C which is fed with 12 gauge wire (code requirement for 20 amps), all the 120v wiring is 14 gauge, which is rated for 15 amps. That would tell me that the water heater circuit is pulling less than 15 amps. I believe the element is rated at 1440 watts. Given the formula W=A x V, 1440 watts divided by 120 would indicate that the water heater draws @ 12 amps. That would seem to mean that a 12 amp appliance could safely be controlled by a 15 amp switch using a segment of 14 gauge wire. I am not, however, a licensed electrician so perhaps someone well versed in electrical requirements could confirm my calculation and statements. I am going to look at my power distribution panel. The main breaker should be 30 amps. It would seem to be unusual if there were a branch circuit, e.g., the water heater circuit rated the same as the main breaker. Are you absolutely certain that the water heater is controlled by a 30 amp breaker?

EDIT: I went out in the rain (Tropical Storm Hermine) and checked. My water heater is on a 15 amp breaker, and as Jim stated in a subsequent post, all branch circuits are 15 anp except for A/C which is 20.
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Old 08-31-2016, 06:21 PM   #37
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I'm in total agreement with you Ian. I've left the outside switch on during camping session and turn it off only when I drain the tank to winterize. It gets turned back on after setup during 1st camping outing in the Spring. Easy Peezy!!!!
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Old 08-31-2016, 06:32 PM   #38
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The 30A breaker is the main breaker. Like Carl said, only the A/C is 20A, the rest 15A.
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Old 08-31-2016, 06:43 PM   #39
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The 30A breaker is the main breaker. Like Carl said, only the A/C is 20A, the rest 15A.


Not in my 17B. Main at top is 30, and so is "HW ELEC" at bottom.

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Old 08-31-2016, 06:48 PM   #40
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Not in my 17B. Main at top is 30, and so is "HW ELEC" at bottom.
I would check into that, as I can't see them running 10g wire to the water heater. When I spliced a switch into mine and it was 14g. Others have too. You really should only have a 15A breaker there, I wonder if it was just an install error?
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