Extra Insulation and Spray Foam Insulation??

[bisonbill]

We just put our deposit down on a 21 and are working on the options list. We are trying to decide the purpose in ordering the extra insulation/thermal windows and spray foam insulation options, and trying to figure out why many (most?) of the option lists posted in the forum include insulation. I've searched these forums but am not coming up with an answer, so I'll start a new thread.

We're coming out of tent, live in New England, probably will do much of our camping in the northeast, what are the advantages and disadvantages of the extra insulation/thermal windows and spray foam insulation options?

[thoer]

The extra insulation and insulated windows helps keep the trailer much warmer and also help cut down on moisture condensation in cold weather camping. The spray foam on the bottom both help keep the floor warmer and help prevent any of the the tanks from freezing up in freezing temperatures. The heating coils inside the spray foam give you even more protection against the tank freezing in very cold weather - but my understanding if that they are really only useful if you have an AC supply, ie - are plugged in somewhere.

You will have to decide how much camping you are planning on doing in cold weather to determine if the cost is worthwhile for you. We camp a lot in the early spring and late fall and are very glad we have the window/insulation package. We get much less condensation than we used to get in our similar sized Scamp that had only the normal insulation. The spray foam was not an option when we bought ours.

[kstock11]

Those who add the insulation/thermal windows & spray foam insulation are looking for the advantages of holding heat in during cold weather, holding heat out during the warm weather and having the advantage of a quieter unit throughout the seasons.

[thoer]

kstock - thanks for adding the info on summer, etc -- we almost never camp in hot weather so I tend to forget that side of it!

[cpaharley2008]

Bill,
If you can make it down here to Pennsylvania, my 21' will be here in about 2 weeks and you can see the options you inquired about.

[padlin]

During some early trips to Northern Ct. when the 1st of the state parks open, as well as a couple times come Columbus day, we've camped when it was below freezing. In the past we go dry and suck down the 2 batteries in a weekend. If possible I'd like to go later in the season as some of the State Parks towards the Ma. shore are open year round with only electric. Hopefully the extra insulation will make it possible to stretch into November and maybe sneak out earlier then mid April.
We're also starting to head west on trips with fall being our preferred time, the Rockies can get pretty cold early fall.
I have a feeling that the floor, being uninsulated, gets cold easily. The spray on sounds like a good idea.

[thoer]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

Bill,
If you can make it down here to Pennsylvania, my 21' will be here in about 2 weeks and you can see the options you inquired about.

Wow -- getting close now JIm! I bet you are anxious.

[bisonbill]

I should mention we are probably not doing A/C since neither my wife nor I like it (and it cuts into the head room).

Does the underside spray foam insulation do anything to help protect the bottom of the trailer, either on the road or when parked? At home its going to be parked on gravel so there is moisture and critters to consider.

[thoer]

The bottom, being solid fiberglass, is plenty strong, in my opinion I wouldn't get the foam only to protect it. But had it been an option when we bought ours I would have bought it for the insulation factor.

Critters - what kind? -- the foam sure won't stop one our determined red squirrels, but then I think only concrete and steel do that!

[bisonbill]

I was thinking about mice or squirrels chewing on wires or rubber parts. Maybe they don't like the taste of spray foam.

[thoer]

Originally Posted by bisonbill

I was thinking about mice or squirrels chewing on wires or rubber parts. Maybe they don't like the taste of spray foam.

Or maybe they would think it was great stuff to burrow a nice little warm home in! LOL It sure would be great if they did dislike the taste of something! Mice seem to like everything in my garage.... and I watched a red squirrel shred the overhead door's weather stripping gasket to get in at the bird seed. That led to a .22 sized hole in the siding........

[gocamp]

Another way to look at it is how far you can stretch even driving. The third week of October this year had snow along Colorado I-25. The snowmobile folks don't mind a bit.

[Canadark]

On the underbelly spray foam insulation, I remember seeing something on the forum stating you can get just the spray foam without the 12v heat pads for $500 (instead of $750 when you get both). Some forum members have reported good results doing cold weather camping with just the spray foam.

I'm planning to go that route when I order my 15'--just get the foam w/o the 12v heat pads.

I have to say, as much as I believe in the Escape product, that is one design element I hate: your fresh water tank being outside the unit and vulnerable to freezing. Just doesn't make sense to me...the tank should be in one of the dinette bench areas like Casita does.

[thoer]

Our Scamp had an interior fresh water tank and in some situations when we filled it, the cold water would make it sweat so much that the carpet under the sink and wood floor were soaking wet. I don't miss an interior tank.

[cpaharley2008]

I had the foam with the 12v pads on my Escape 19' and opted only for the foam on my Escape 21'. You have to be hooked up to use the 12v heat pads and if you are hooked up your tanks will not freeze. I camped down to -0- without any issue in my 19' (except for condensation)
You can ask to have your fresh tank installed under the bed, but you loose a lot of storage. My suggestion is, you have Escape install the E-Z- winterizing bypass which pulls rv antifreeze right from a antifreeze bottle thru your 12v pump. Then go camping in the winter with your lines full of antifreeze. Hook up the pump to a spare gallon of antifreeze and use the toilet only if needed. The pump will work and your tanks will be winterized also. Take along a water container for use and use the cg showers. Works like a charm.
Another option is get a 120v heated water hose, some cg offer water with heat tape. Then you have full use of the camper but you will have to winterize upon returning home, again use the E-Z- winterizing set up, takes 5 minutes.

[nealmccarter]

We went with extra insulation & foam insulation, but no heaters. Years of pop up camping in not so ideal weather with little or no insulation made it a no brainer for us.

[techfan]

At the risk of causing a major debate the term "extra" insulation is a misnomer. There is no EXTRA insulation. If you order the insulation package, you GET insulation in cupboards and below benches where there is none. Therefore it is NOT extra. No extra insulation is added under the vinyl/foam headliner material (at least not in mine made in April 2013.) My advice to anyone is get the insulation package so most of your walls have some kind of insulating value. I also fail to see why this insulation package is not standard. Every trailer I have ever looked at has some kind of insulation in roof, walls and often under floors. An uninsulated wall just doesn't make sense for the quality of the Escape. Even with the insulation package, I have a section of wall under my fridge which has no insulation at all which gets very cold and transfers cold to the inside. See the pictures below.

[thoer]

Originally Posted by techfan

...No extra insulation is added under the vinyl/foam headliner material (at least not in mine made in April 2013.)...

I have pictures of ours being built that Tammy sent me that shows the Reflectix insulation covering all the surfaces before the foam backed liner is applied over it. Are you sure that there is no Reflectix under yours?

[nealmccarter]

Originally Posted by techfan

At the risk of causing a major debate the term "extra" insulation is a misnomer. There is no EXTRA insulation. If you order the insulation package, you GET insulation in cupboards and below benches where there is none. Therefore it is NOT extra. No extra insulation is added under the vinyl/foam headliner material (at least not in mine made in April 2013.)

Hmm? So let me get this straight, when I order "Extra Insulation & Thermal Windows" I'm not really getting extra insulation? That doesn't seem right. When I originally inquired about the difference, Escape responded with this:

"The Escape has approximately an R4 value with the figerglass and the foamed backed vinyl. When the thermal windows and extra insulation (option) is added, it will bring the trailer up to an R12. The sprayfoam (option) can also be added to the underbelly of the trailer which would then make the trailer fully insulated."

[cpaharley2008]

After owning 2 Escapes with "Extra insulation" and viewing other Escapes without "extra insulation" and viewing the build pictures of others while under construction, the following observations can be made. Without paying any extra $, the standard package includes reflectix on the walls/ceiling down to the belt line and then vinyl covering down to the belt line. Windows are single pane.
The extra $$ insulation package continues with the reflectix down to the floor and over the wheel wells and provides double pane windows. The floor, if sprayed with the foam seals the entire bottom of the trailer, front to back. Now your unit is completely covered with some insulation, top and bottom and sides.