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Old 11-29-2015, 02:51 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Jim Bennett View Post
It could be that the low pressure quick connect is looked at as a device itself.

I know this is the reason all propane lines are run under an RV, with individual lines to appliances.
That would make sense. Certainly avoiding connections inside the trailer is a good thing, and would be even if it were not required by code.
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Old 11-29-2015, 03:39 PM   #22
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I'll jump in with my 2 cents (US)...

Combustion produces 4 byproducts. CO, CO2, H2O and unburnt fuel - all in various amounts depending on the source. We don't want any of these in the trailer. To that end we have a hard rule: If the stove is on, so is the exhaust fan, plus a vent is open for incoming air. Yes - it is cold in winter. And to add to the problem, I can't possible sleep with the built-in furnace running.

Our solution - an electric blanket or similar. We have a heated mattress pad on our To-Buy list.

Back in the "old days", while living on a boat with the same problems, we used a small inverter (400 watts) and electric blanket. The price to pay for quiet heat was running the engine for an hour to charge the batteries the next day. These days with the solar setup, which includes the standard roof panel plus a portable 150 watt panel, there will be no problems replacing the power used.

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Old 11-29-2015, 04:32 PM   #23
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Thanks everyone for their input! I think Jon hit the nail on the head since he is already doing what I plan on in the near future!
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Old 11-29-2015, 06:22 PM   #24
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That would make sense. Certainly avoiding connections inside the trailer is a good thing, and would be even if it were not required by code.
I researched what was code for RV's because I couldn't believe the wiring and plumbing could meet it. I found out that, at this moment, there is no 'code' for RVs, they were considered short term use and manufacturers lobbied against it.

There are US DOT regulations regarding road safety like lighting, I'd guess they cover propane to some extent.
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Old 11-29-2015, 06:42 PM   #25
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I researched what was code for RV's because I couldn't believe the wiring and plumbing could meet it. I.
I know what you mean. The first time I became aware of the vast differences between, say residential wiring codes vrs. RV "code" was when I looked in the closet of my Scamp and saw how the incoming plug wiring joined the trailer wiring. A bunch of Marette twist connectors in a jumble on the floor.

The thought of loose objects sitting on this mess of wires or bouncing on to it was a bit of shock. Glad to see Escape protects those connections with a box.

I tried a similar heater in a boat once. Even sitting below a cracked open hatch it still caused too much condensation for my liking. Used it once then someone got a steal of a deal at my garage sale.

If had a little more room on the bathroom wall near the dinette I'd love to put in a diesel Dickinson cabin heater. Tons of silent heat and a cheery flame to boot.

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Old 11-29-2015, 07:55 PM   #26
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One of the extra credit questions on an electrical exam I gave for apprentices was
"How do you say "Scotchlok" in Canadian " No one ever answered the question correctly !!
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Old 11-29-2015, 09:20 PM   #27
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Gas Line for indoor propane heater

I have used these heater inside campers on the odd occasion but even with a fair bit of ventilation found they produced to much condensation.
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Old 11-29-2015, 09:47 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klem View Post
I researched what was code for RV's because I couldn't believe the wiring and plumbing could meet it. I found out that, at this moment, there is no 'code' for RVs, they were considered short term use and manufacturers lobbied against it.
This is just not true, baglo even posted a photo of the CSA decal that shows that the trailer meets the CSA-Z240 RV code for plumbing and electrical. You must have missed that. With the talks I have had with Reace regarding it, he will not do anything that does not comply with the requirements.

Google this code, and you will find out more, though you cannot obtain a copy without purchasing it for $100, but that is cheap compared to what I pay for a copy of the Alberta Building Codes.

Case in point, I wanted to install my own stove, but Escape has to either have the stove (any stove) connected to the gas supply before I take possession, or not run the line at all. I am going to make certain he has the stove to temporarily install.
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Old 11-29-2015, 10:07 PM   #29
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Yes, they have requirements and they have to submit plans, pay a bunch of money and have what they are doing approved, such as for a furnace and where it is installed.
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Old 11-29-2015, 11:12 PM   #30
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CSA 'certifies' that whatever meets certain codes and standards. My point is there is no US Fed or State code regarding electrical or plumbing design and installation in RVs.

CSA is voluntary: (go to there website for more)
Marks & Labels
CSA Group is a total solutions global provider of North American marks and can help you access the international marks you need to sell your product around the world. You can display CSA North American marks on your products with confidence, knowing that CSA marks are widely accepted and recognized by many government and code officials, regulatory and regulation bodies like the SCC and OSHA, leading retailers and authorities having jurisdiction (AHJ).

It is not a mandatory government 'code' that is 'enforced'. ETI tries to meet the spirit of CSA but you can tell by their sloppy work that no one is inspecting it.
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Old 11-30-2015, 12:00 AM   #31
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Here is two electrical examples from our 2014 19':
AC wiring - the pigtail bringing AC into the trailer passes through this metal box to the panel. Looking to the input (left) a plastic pressure clamp was used, the cable had pulled out of the clamp. I couldn't push it back in more then 1/4" so I taped and supported it with two new clamps.

DC wiring - notice green (right) splice, 1" wire red, to red splice. No planning here, just leave tails on the cable and you won't find yourself 1" short of a proper slice. I found more then one of these.

I'm not saying ETI builds are any worse then average, I would need to inspect other trailers to make that determination. But obviously the workmanship of the people doing the AC and DC wiring is sloppy. In the case of the AC cable it would be 'illegal' ... but I could not find an enforceable code requirement that it did not comply with.

I contacted our City inspectors, an RV shop, and the US NTSHA.
Attached Thumbnails
AC in box.jpg   12 vdc wiring short piece etc.jpg  
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Old 11-30-2015, 12:06 AM   #32
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Klem,

Your pictures aren't particularly sharp. Rather fuzzy. Could you please reshoot them and post them again?
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Old 11-30-2015, 12:14 AM   #33
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Here is two electrical examples from our 2014 19':
AC wiring - the pigtail bringing AC into the trailer passes through this metal box to the panel. Looking to the input (left) a plastic pressure clamp was used, the cable had pulled out of the clamp. I couldn't push it back in more then 1/4" so I taped and supported it with two new clamps.

DC wiring - notice green (right) splice, 1" wire red, to red spot lice. No planning here, just leave tails on the cable and you won't find yourself 1" short of a proper slice. I found more then one of these.

I'm not saying ETI builds are any worse then average, I would need to inspect other trailers to make that determination. But obviously the workmanship of the people doing the AC and DC wiring is sloppy. In the case of the AC cable it would be 'illegal' ... but I could not find an enforceable code requirement that it did not comply with.

I contacted our City inspectors, an RV shop, and the US NTSHA.
Klem is the metal box under bed where my 120 cable is located ? In other words that cable then goes through trailer to get to converter box ? Just want to make sure I Understand what I am seeing . Pat
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Old 11-30-2015, 12:43 AM   #34
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CSA 'certifies' that whatever meets certain codes and standards. My point is there is no US Fed or State code regarding electrical or plumbing design and installation in RVs.
Perhaps not, but some provinces require that new recreational vehicles sold in that province meet CSA Z240... so that is "code" (regulations) regarding electrical and plumbing (including propane) design and installation in RVs.

The rough equivalent in the U.S. is the set of standards set by RVIA. I believe that RVIA's standards are generally a collection of references to specific standards for various aspects of the RV defined by other agencies. If there is no legislated requirement to meet RVIA standards or the underlying standards by other agencies, then there's no code for RVs (beyond the vehicle codes, which include exterior lighting).

When I inquired about buying a Casita (about a decade ago), I was told that they met both RVIA and CSA standards, and would label the unit with the CSA certification for sale to a Canadian customer who would need to import it to Canada and register it here. I don't know if Escape attempts to meet or certify compliance with RVIA standards.
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Old 11-30-2015, 12:52 AM   #35
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Klem is the metal box under bed where my 120 cable is located ? In other words that cable then goes through trailer to get to converter box ? Just want to make sure I Understand what I am seeing . Pat
Yes, that's correct. To the left of it you can see where the power cord enters the trailer. The cable going forward goes up the driver side behind the lower cupboard, over the wheel well, along side the bathroom and to the converter.

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Old 11-30-2015, 12:53 AM   #36
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I contacted our City inspectors, an RV shop, and the US NTSHA.
That's "NHTSA" (as in National Highway Traffic Safety Administration). I'm not surprised that they would not care about what's inside an RV trailer. The rough equivalent in Canada is Transport Canada: I doubt they have RV-specific rules, either.

The level that isn't listed here is the state. In Canada, I would check with provincial law enforcement agencies, but they are usually concerned mostly with commercial vehicles... and again would not generally be concerned with the "house" systems of an RV.
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Old 11-30-2015, 12:56 AM   #37
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Yes, that's correct. To the left of it you can see where the power cord enters the trailer. The cable going forward goes up the driver side behind the lower cupboard, over the wheel well, along side the bathroom and to the converter.

Ron
Guess I need to check this out then . Pat
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Old 11-30-2015, 07:31 AM   #38
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It appears that Klem may be confused by comparing residential/commercial installs and rules to a rv. I'm not saying that human error does not exist. Having owned over a 1/2 dozen "new homes" there will always be issues, that is why you have a warranty. I have had heat vents that were not connected, water lines that leaked, electrical outlets that were improperly wired in a new house.
Having owned over a 1/2 dozen SOB's I can unequivocally say that ETI's builds far exceeds what I have owned and seen in Dutchman, Thor, Jayco, and Lance rv products. Two mistakes that caused -0- issues to me is acceptable in the real world of human error. But to have an improperly installed roof membrane or a faulty slide installation that causes total immobility is an inconvenience issue that is unacceptable in a new unit. The neatness of the wiring and plumbing in an Escape is not to be found elsewhere except in the very expensive motorhomes I have seen. I base this conclusion on having owned 2 new Escapes. There maybe wiring cosmetic issues, but everything works, so I'm a happy camper.
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Old 11-30-2015, 09:25 AM   #39
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Most RV manufacturers follow the. Electrical code except for NEC Art 110.12 , which states " All electrical equipment shall be installed in a neat and workmanship like manner "
Looking at the photos in this thread one can draw your own conclusion.
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Old 11-30-2015, 10:15 AM   #40
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I can't get the first one to open larger. Not working. And the other is somewhat blurry.
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