Heating "nightmares"

[cyclopath]

The furnace in my new Escape works quite well, heating the RV snuggy warm. But after pulling the trailer down here to the Phoenix area, where it is currently a freezing 25 degrees Fahrenheit during the night, I have found that each time the furnace comes on and turns off (an average of every 10 minutes), I wake up. So all night long, I fall asleep only to be awaken ten minutes later when the furnace comes on, go back to sleep for five minutes while the trailer heats up, then wake up again when the furnace shuts off. Yes, I’m a light sleeper.

I sleep in flannel pajamas, with a wool cap over my head, in a very warm sleeping bag (good down to 6 degrees Fahrenheit). It’s very cozy except it’s not comfortable breathing very cold air with only my nose sticking out from the sleeping bag.

So I tried the following solutions with mixed results:
SOLUTION #1: Turn off the furnace and turn on the two-burner stove on low. That worked fairly well until sometimes the fire alarm/carbon monoxide device went beep-beep-beep. So I would get out of bed, unscrew the device, wrap it up in a towel and put it in either the fridge or my car so the beeping wouldn’t disturb me. But I’m not sure that was a SAFE solution, so I no longer do it.

SOLUTION #2: Sleep with ear plugs. That helped to reduce the noisy furnace on/off intervals about 5%. Besides, after one hour, my plugged ears began hurting. Not a good solution, so I no longer do that.

SOLUTION #3: Put on my Bose electronic noise-canceling earphones, which reduces the furnace noises between 50-60%. That’s not too bad, but when I want to turn on my side, the earphones hurt my head, so they work all right only if I sleep on my back all night. Plus after an hour or so, the earphones are somewhat painful to wear. However, at least I’ve gotten some good ZZZZZs with this method.

I’m wondering if there is available a portable heating unit that is super silent, efficient and, above all, SAFE that I could purchase and use in my little Escape to keep warm in these very cold Arizona temperatures? I know some or all of the above solutions sound hilarious, but I’m serious in asking on this forum for SERIOUS assistance. Thanks a bunch!

[Kountrykamper]

NEVER TURN ON THE STOVE TO STAY WARM. You are lucky the Carbon Monoxide detector went off and you were able to wake up. This option will kill you. Maybe campers have died doing this.

[lefttee]

We found a Vornado space heater to be very adequate in keeping our 19 warm on 40 +/- degree nights. Very quiet but will require you to be on the grid (110 v). About $60 on Amazon. I don't know if I would even have a furnace in my next Escape given how well the little space heater works. It also stores very nicely under the bench on the front right. We do have the insulation package and I'm sure that also makes a big difference. I believe there are other threads on the forum re this issue as well...search "Vornado." I would also agree using the stove is a VERY BAD IDEA!

[gocamp]

Also that burning stove flame, Depleted Oxygen levels are not just deadly, but impair physical and mental ability, leads to an increased risk of accidents.

As to CO, You might want this, will alarm at 50 PPM. You might want to look into what CO PPM your trailer detector alarms at.
SENSIT P100
Single Gas Personal Monitor

[Jim Bennett]

I too am a light sleeper, but have become somewhat accustomed to the sound of the furnace fan. It will still wake me at times, but I usually can fall right back to sleep. We sleep with lots of cozy blankets with the thermometer set at about 8-9°C. We would set it colder, but then condensation starts to become an issue.

On the rare occasion we are connected to the grid, and need heat, we carry a small 120V cube heater. A lot quieter, and does not use our propane.

The stove can be on as long as there is adequate fresh air supply for it, but for heating this is a Catch 22, as the heat will then just escape out the opening. I would never try using the stove under any condition for heat. When using it for cooking, it is usually for a short period of time, and I know we always provide some fresh air intake when we use it.

[daveandsandyclink]

Hi Jim,
You didn't say whether you were on the grid. If so, get yourself a small thermostat regulated 120volt ceramic heater. It should be more than enough to keep your trailer warm and save your propane. If your dry camping, you could use a small Wave catalytic heater for quite heat. But you must have ventilation such a slightly open window or roof vent to keep from depleting oxygen. The down side of heat by propane is inside condensation.

Sounds like cold weather has followed you south.

[Dave Walter]

The furnace going on and off on a regular basis does take some getting used to. To me it is kind of like when I sleep on the hard ground in a tent. I usually have a tough time sleeping for the first couple of nights, and after that I am so tired that I am no longer bothered as much and sleep fairly well. In the Escape with the furnace going, it is usually the first one or two nights where my sleep is disrupted. After that I am generally more tired and find that I can get a better sleep, and no longer seem to notice the furnace cycling on and off.

To my ears, the furnace is no louder than the A/C, so if you can sleep with the A/C on, then the furnace should be no big deal.

Also, if you are at a campground with electrical services, as others have mentioned, a small 120V cube heater should do the trick.

[cpaharley2008]

I find the oil filled heaters are silent and quite warm, they come in various sizes, 400 to 1500 watts. Electric blankets or mattress heaters also make the bed warm and you can turn the furnace down low.

[bvansnell]

Cyclopath:

There are three heating solutions we use:

When we are on the grid and want to sleep we use a small 200 watt ceramic heater similar to this one which takes away the chill -- you can leave it on all the time and it is very quiet:
Amazon.com - Lasko #100 MyHeat Personal Ceramic Heater - Space Heaters

When we are on the grid and want to be warm we use a 1500 watt ceramic heater similar to this one:
http://www.amazon.com/World-Marketin.../dp/B000HU4FKY

When we are off the grid we use the furnace in our trailer. We have gotten used to the sound

[JimJ]

Cyclopath: There aren't any reviews for it, but here's a 12-volt heater for when you're off the grid.
12V All-Season Heater/Fan - Roadpro RPSL-581 - Fans - Camping World

[Vermilye]

I'm in southern Arizona now, and it was 27°F this morning at Lost Dutchman State Park. Since I have hookups, I am using an old (1986) Pelonis Disk Heater that has a variable speed fan & heating output. Set it for a temperature & it comes on at full wattage (1500) then, as the trailer warms up the fan & wattage drop. Usually, it gets almost silent & draws around 300 watts when the nighttime temperatures are in the 40's, although last night it ran at about 1/2 speed & around 800 watts. Still much quieter than the furnace.

It usually takes a couple of days off the grid to get used to the furnace noise, but I do adjust so I can sleep through it...

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by daveandsandyclink

The down side of heat by propane is inside condensation.

Propane has nothing to do with condensation. The furnace exhausts to the outside so nothing from the burner chamber enters the trailer.

baglo

[daveandsandyclink]

I was referring to a stand alone catalytic heater. Over the coarse of a night you will get condensation! I used a Wave heater connected to the trailer propane for many years at high elevation for quiet, off grid heat. As a side note: Mr. Buddy will not operate above 4K because of a built in oxygen sensor.

[AimlessWanderLust]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

Propane has nothing to do with condensation. The furnace exhausts to the outside so nothing from the burner chamber enters the trailer.

baglo

Since he was referencing a Wave Catalytic heater, which does not vent to the outside, condensation WILL be an issue with this heater, as well as more CO and less O2 inside the trailer. These three issues are the reason for needing both an upper and lower vent in the trailer when in use. With proper venting, there is almost no danger (we have used a Wave6 Catalytic heater for 100+ nights in previous rigs, and still live!). The benefit for a catalytic heater is that they are ~98% efficient (vs. around 70% for a vented furnace) and use ZERO battery power (no fan, no noise).

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by daveandsandyclink

The down side of heat by propane is inside condensation.

This is only an issue if the propane heater is unvented; that it, it exhausts into the trailer interior, as with most catalytic heaters and the common Mr Heater Buddy models. This is true of burning any fuel, including kerosene or alcohol, not just propane.

Originally Posted by gbaglo

Propane has nothing to do with condensation. The furnace exhausts to the outside so nothing from the burner chamber enters the trailer.

Absolutely true... for a furnace, which is externally vented.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by AimlessWanderLust

The benefit for a catalytic heater is that they are ~98% efficient (vs. around 70% for a vented furnace)...

This is true of any unvented heater. You get all the heat, along with all the combustion products (water, carbon dioxide, unburned fuel, carbon monoxide...), minus what happens to go out the window.

[gbaglo]

Missed that.
I think most of the condensation, though, is coming from your lungs, until you stop breathing.

[nealmccarter]

Poor performance of the furnace in our pop up had us looking for alternatives. We ended up using a ceramic heater while on the grid, and a Buddy catalytic heater when not. The buddy heater was a God send many a night in the fall and early winter.

Amazon.com - Mr. Heater F232000 MH9BX Buddy 4, 000-9, 000-BTU Indoor-Safe Portable Radiant Heater - Space Heaters

[techfan]

Originally Posted by JimJ

Cyclopath: There aren't any reviews for it, but here's a 12-volt heater for when you're off the grid.
12V All-Season Heater/Fan - Roadpro RPSL-581 - Fans - Camping World

I actually have one of these and tried it. Uses up batteries very fast. It is more designed for a vehicle where the battery is being renewed by the alternator.

One thing to keep the cycling of the furnace and the temp more consistent is to replace the thermostat with a digital one. There is a thread on this. Ours has made a difference in our sleeping. It doesn't get too cold before it comes on and then the furnace doesn't run so long. Ours is a LUX purchased on Amazon. Easy 2 wire install.

[daveandsandyclink]

I lived and worked in Colorado for several years, spending most of my off time outdoors climbing, hiking, camping, fishing, and enjoying everything the Rockies had to offer.
I never had an Atwood in my last (hard tent). Never missed it while camping mostly in US national parks, and national and state forest campgrounds off grid including some winter camping. My Wave 3 was approved for tent and RV use. They are highly rated by those that hate noisy furnace fans, generators, and dead batteries. Safe if you read and follow the recommended manufactures instructions for installation, usage, and care.