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Old 04-25-2017, 09:17 AM   #21
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Guys, any plans to install a Hepvo to replace the p-trap (I know, its not really a p-trap) at the kitchen sink as well?
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Hi Robert,

Since we full time in our Escape, there are no plans for the kitchen Hepvo at this time. I did do it on our Casita and then we started getting a sewer smell, so Dora is not keen on doing it in the Escape.



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Old 04-25-2017, 09:25 AM   #22
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Hi Robert,

Since we full time in our Escape, there are no plans for the kitchen Hepvo at this time. I did do it on our Casita and then we started getting a sewer smell, so Dora is not keen on doing it in the Escape.



Fred M.
That's interesting Fred. Perhaps the Hepvo isn't foolproof, or perhaps the membrane inside yours wasn't sealing properly? Theoretically, there should be zero smell - the Hepvo seals off the pipe when it's not draining.

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Old 04-25-2017, 09:39 AM   #23
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I don't get any of this hoo hah business with sink traps and drains and smells. My plumbing's been just fine.
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Old 04-25-2017, 09:49 AM   #24
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That's interesting Fred. Perhaps the Hepvo isn't foolproof, or perhaps the membrane inside yours wasn't sealing properly? Theoretically, there should be zero smell - the Hepvo seals off the pipe when it's not draining.

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You are correct not sure what the deal was with ours. Our workaround was to run hot water and then the smell would stop, but the gray tank would fill faster. Go figure!


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Old 04-25-2017, 09:49 AM   #25
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I don't get any of this hoo hah business with sink traps and drains and smells. My plumbing's been just fine.


Good for you!


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Old 04-25-2017, 10:07 AM   #26
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I don't get any of this hoo hah business with sink traps and drains and smells. My plumbing's been just fine.
I agree, as we age we need to focus on our internal plumbing.....
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Old 04-25-2017, 11:52 AM   #27
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There may actually be help for controlling trailer odors thanks to research at the Monell Chemical Senses center and other labs, like the International Flavors & Fragrances research and development center. Since isolating 3-methyl-2-hexenoic acid, the molecule that produces underarm sweat they’ve been working on masking instead of carpet bombing unpleasant odors by creating scents that adhere only to the nasal sensors most sensitive to particular stinks from sinks.

Microencapsulation is a deodorant breakthrough in which microscopic balloons filled with scent will melt in a timely way and cut airborne flows from the sewer under the trailer.

This cutting edge research has major scent companies, logistics managers, consultants, and firms developing new packaging and could be a better way to keep the plumber at bay.

Or not.
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Old 04-25-2017, 12:44 PM   #28
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Thanks Jim. We have experienced an occassional gurgle in the kitchen sink. Interestingly, after installing the HEPVO in the shower drain, the kitchen sink did drain a little faster and we haven't noted gurgling. No logical explanation there as they only co-exist within the grey tank itself. Hmmmmm.
Dave, you do have a longer run from the sink to the grey tank since you swapped the location of the stove and sink. Also a longer horizontal run along the front edge of the cabinet. If the trailer isn't level or slightly lower in the front that may cause the occasional gurgling. If installing a Hepvo valve under the sink you could also redirect the drain line and remove a couple feet or more of the horizontal run.
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Old 04-25-2017, 12:45 PM   #29
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The odor issue is with the E-21 bath drain. I have no idea how the E-19 bath drain is set up, there may not be issues there.
The E-21 bath trap is at least 24" from the drain drops with a very slight horizontal run. The trap blocks up water in the entire length of horizontal pipe. In my trailer the input of the trap was lower than the output, This would not allow anything floating (Soap, scum and other stuff) to drop into the trap. In a proper trap the floating debris should drop into the trap and be flushed out. The standing water surface area in a normal trap is about 2 sq. in. and the trap is flushed with every drain event.
In the E-21 drain the 2 ft. piece drain pipe before the trap was partially filled with sour greywater and all the floating matter had attached to the exposed top inner side of the pipe. There is about 30 sq. in. of water surface area with the current plumbing set up. This is like having a small bucket of stinky greywater just sitting in an open pail
The E-21 bath drain odor issue is caused the location of the trap next to the tank, allowing the large quantity sour greywater of build up in front of the trap. Just moving the normal P trap next to the drain drops would greatly improve this issue but you would essentially end up with the Casita drain situation. The Hepvo valve helps remedy these issues and also helps with the prevention of backflow of greywater during movement like in the Casita drain modification.
I'm not trying to push the Hepvo valve mod. I'm just trying to let people understand why the odor can get so bad in the E-21 bath drain over time.
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Old 04-25-2017, 06:21 PM   #30
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Thank you elongest,

You explained it perfectly!

Regards,


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Old 04-25-2017, 10:22 PM   #31
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I don't get any of this hoo hah business with sink traps and drains and smells. My plumbing's been just fine.
It's always god when someone can say, "my sink don't stink"! Bwaaa haaaa haaa!
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Old 04-25-2017, 10:25 PM   #32
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I am installing one primarily to gain a bit of height under the sink, as well as elimination of the P-trap.

It shows in the instructions for retrofitting to just replace the trap and leave the vent, but in new construction to eliminate the vents at the fixtures, and just have one near the tank. I imagine they just left them in when upgrading as a convenience.

Given there is no trap to siphon out, it would seem they are not needed. This is my best guess anyway.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=h...structions.pdf
I don't see a grey tank vent stack to the roof on the new 5.0TA. The pictures Escape posted of the demo units only show a black tank vent stack. Is there an internal one or is one not needed on the grey tank?
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Old 04-25-2017, 10:28 PM   #33
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Dave, you do have a longer run from the sink to the grey tank since you swapped the location of the stove and sink. Also a longer horizontal run along the front edge of the cabinet. If the trailer isn't level or slightly lower in the front that may cause the occasional gurgling. If installing a Hepvo valve under the sink you could also redirect the drain line and remove a couple feet or more of the horizontal run.
Yes, it is considerably longer and once the lines reach the bottom of the cabinets there is very little slope. Unfortunately when it comes to level, tail high or nose high, the sink and shower are in direct competition for drain slope. Raising/lowering the tongues hurts one while helping the other.
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Old 04-25-2017, 10:48 PM   #34
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I don't see a grey tank vent stack to the roof on the new 5.0TA. The pictures Escape posted of the demo units only show a black tank vent stack. Is there an internal one or is one not needed on the grey tank?
It is just to the left of the bath, and goes up to a cheater vent. I found it when I tore the cabinetry there apart.
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Old 04-25-2017, 11:39 PM   #35
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It is just to the left of the bath, and goes up to a cheater vent. I found it when I tore the cabinetry there apart.
Is it open at the top or is there an Oaty type seal? Is it hidden behind the wall? I'm also not getting the bathroom sink so there won't be a stand pipe going thru the bathroom wall there, just a drain in the bathroom floor. Guess I should ask Reece what the plumbing will be like. Thanks for the information.
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Old 04-26-2017, 06:00 AM   #36
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Here's some pics. On ours it ended up being a straight shot - on Fred abd Dora's trailer there are a couple 90 degree elbows. In one of the pictures pipe insulation is shown covering the PEX water lines - that because at the rally 2 people mentioned to me separately that PEX line is not designed with exposure (even indirect) to UV light as an option. Figured it's best not to take a chance and there's nothing wrong with a bit of insulation anyway.
Just curious why there was a difference in the install on two 2017 21 foot trailers. Did they change the design between the 2 builds?
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Old 04-26-2017, 06:50 AM   #37
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Just curious why there was a difference in the install on two 2017 21 foot trailers. Did they change the design between the 2 builds?
I don't think they changed the design - it appears to be a combination of a couple factors. #1. Where someone located the grey tank laterally (side to side) as an inch or two makes a difference on how the pipes line up. That's assuming the tanks come with a pre-drilled hole. If the input hole is not pre-drilled then it depends on where the ETI tech drilled it. The difference in line up between Fred's and mine is around 4 - 5 inches (maybe more) I would estimate as I had no room to put in 90 degree elbows and his easily accomodated 2 of them - one turning right and the other turning left. My original p-trap was constructed coming almost straight out of the grey - his made a turn to the side before dropping into the p. #2. How the ETI Tech puts together the various 90 degree elbows to build a p-trap. Fred's and mine were no where near close to each other in angles or spacers. Tom said his were different than ours - wish we'd have taken pictures but those pieces are now in the trash bin. Mine had no visible space between each 90 and Fred's had considerable spacer tubes between each one resulting in his p-trap hanging very low. All three trailers were built within a couple weeks of each other.
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Old 04-26-2017, 07:19 AM   #38
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Is it open at the top or is there an Oaty type seal? Is it hidden behind the wall? I'm also not getting the bathroom sink so there won't be a stand pipe going thru the bathroom wall there, just a drain in the bathroom floor. Guess I should ask Reece what the plumbing will be like. Thanks for the information.
Not sure what an Oaty type seal is, but as mentioned it is not open, as it has a cheater vent on it. I found it tearing apart the cabinetry, so you would not see it otherwise. The vent is up near the top of the cavity the furnace is in.
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Old 04-26-2017, 01:15 PM   #39
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https://www.amazon.com/Oatey-39012-L.../dp/B000KKSP52
It is an Oatey brand cheater vent. I'm glad it has a cheater vent as some earlier trailers and many other brand RVs only have an open top stand pipe.
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Old 04-26-2017, 04:14 PM   #40
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They've been using these for years in houses
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