Insulation

[barry]

I was at the factory last week and noted a couple of trailers on the line that had the underneath insulation and it was painted black. I don't know if that's standard or not but it does show that they will paint it black if you want.

Barry

[schmucko]

We very rarely camp where AC power is available but if we do the pads will make the trailer more versatile.

I mainly got the heat pad so that if we come home and the grey water or sewage at partially or totally frozen, we can plug the trailer in and defrost it before emptying the tanks.

I'm not worried about fresh water tank because it is inside and can be kept worm with 12V power and the propane furnace. On cold nights I do open the door to the storage beneath the queen bed to help keep that area warmer.

[PGDriver]

I believe the heating pads are 110 volt.

[cpaharley2008]

The heat pads are 12v according to Escape's website. But the draw is such that you want to be hooked up to electric to keep the battery from becoming discharged. They are thermostatically controlled, on/off at 32 degrees. Switch is located under the bed by the pump. I installed a led light to remind me when they are activated. The pads are on the fresh and grey tanks.

[PGDriver]

Wow I just looked Jim your right they are 12 volt, I bet those will draw your battery down quick

[Brian B-P]

I doubt that the choice of 12V power for tank heating pads was made to allow operation on battery power. With 12V, you can run them from the tug while moving, and from the converter while camped with power supplied. I agree that run time on any reasonable battery will be short.

[Ruthe]

I've been looking at outgassing today -- it would seem that the fiberglass trailers would have far less formaldahyde just because there is so much less wood. And it's even possible to buy plywood that doesn't have formaldahyde. It's something we'd talk about when we reserve a trailer.

I'm wondering if anyone has chosen not to get any extra insulation or thermal windows and how that has worked out.

Ruth

[JimJ]

We picked-up our 15B in December, 2012 with the underfloor insulation installed. It is black in color.

[schmucko]

Actually that's a good idea. Just turn on the pads on when you are driving home and maybe the tanks will thaw enough to empty....

[thoer]

I think it will be interesting to see how the 2 part spray foam insulation holds up over time. A main problem might be UV degradation, but that shouldn't be a huge problem with it on the mostly shaded underbelly. On the advice of an energy audit on our house (a geodesic dome) we used it in our small attic space, and it is a job I would never want to do again! But it does an amazing job of sealing and insulating.

[dbailey]

Just an FYI: I asked Escape about these heaters yesterday, and the response I got back today is that they're 10A each. So, 20A/240W for the pair of them, while they're running.

[cpaharley2008]

That is exactly why they should only be used while plugged in, so that your 55 amp converter can supply the power otherwise 5 hours will kill a set of 6 volts!

[dbailey]

Also FYI, the single 12v battery is rated for 98Ah, and the dual 6v is rated for 232Ah. Not sure how that "rating" corresponds with real world use, though -- is that the amount you can safely get out of them before recharging, or is that the total capacity before you run them right down (and ruin them? I know these are deep cycle batteries, but how deep is deep?)

On a sunny day in good exposure, your solar might give you ~80Ah per day. Running your 20A worth of heating pads for 4 hours is enough to use all that up. Add in the power you bring with you (232Ah in your dual 6v batteries) and if you need to run the heating pads for 8h/day to keep things warm enough, you've got about 2 or 3 days off grid before the numbers catch up to you. Obviously if it's colder to run out of power sooner, and if it's warmer you last longer.

How cold does it have to be before you need to run the heating pads for 4 hours/day? I have no idea...

[dbailey]

For what it's worth, I've decided that for our camping style (occasionally getting caught below freezing when camping at high altitude in the shoulder season, but never planning on camping in the dead of winter) we don't need the heating pads. And, without the heating pads, we don't have any large power draws so we don't need the dual 6v batteries either.

I'm not so certain about the need for the dual 6v batteries, but they're easy to retrofit after the fact. The heating pads would be rather difficult to add in after the insulation is blown underneath...

[cpaharley2008]

Originally Posted by dbailey

Also FYI, the single 12v battery is rated for 98Ah, and the dual 6v is rated for 232Ah. Not sure how that "rating" corresponds with real world use, though -- is that the amount you can safely get out of them before recharging, or is that the total capacity before you run them right down (and ruin them? I know these are deep cycle batteries, but how deep is deep?)

On a sunny day in good exposure, your solar might give you ~80Ah per day. Running your 20A worth of heating pads for 4 hours is enough to use all that up. Add in the power you bring with you (232Ah in your dual 6v batteries) and if you need to run the heating pads for 8h/day to keep things warm enough, you've got about 2 or 3 days off grid before the numbers catch up to you. Obviously if it's colder to run out of power sooner, and if it's warmer you last longer.

How cold does it have to be before you need to run the heating pads for 4 hours/day? I have no idea...

Here is a good source to understand your 12v system and batteries
The 12volt Side of Life (Part 1)
http://www.marxrv.com/12volt/12volta.htm
you only have available 40% of your capacity, thus with 6 volts around 100 a/h of use
I'd only use maybe one hour off grid, just enough to melt. With the foam, I have camped down to 10-15 degree(F) without the need of tank heaters, but I have them in case I ever need them. They only come on at 32 degrees maybe less since they are foam covered, not sure where the thermostat is located on them.

[float5]

I was under the impression that the little optional window above the sink does not open if thermal. Does anyone have an opening thermal version above the sink?

Originally Posted by Ruthe

Yes -- Here's the answer I got about getting insulation without thermal windows:

"The insulation packages are a great option. Just to let you know, the thermal windows do open. The only windows that do not open are the front and rear windows of the trailer. All the other windows open. If you would like to just have the insulation, it is $500.
The sprayfoam option ( underneath insulation ) is applied in a manner that any parts that need to be accessed are available."

[JimJ]

I can only answer for our 2012 15B. We added two small windows--both are thermal and both open.

[cpaharley2008]

The opening window is not thermal on the Escape 19, the fixed one, non opening is thermal. I'd rather have the opening one, works great in the rain, it is an awning style window. Can you verify it is thermal in the 15?

[techfan]

Hmmm... Just picked our 15B and all windows are thermal according to Reace EXCEPT the small swing out by the kitchen. He told me it is the same size as the one in the door but the door is thermal because it does not open.

[cpaharley2008]

Yes, that is the one weak spot in the insulation, a themapane window in an uninsulated door. I'm working on installing some spray foam inside the door's 2 skins, as soon as I can find foam that does not expand, I do not want to crack the door skin.