Lithium batteries

[Kent]

Originally Posted by marsman

Are the 6v batteries you buy off of Escape adequate for boondocking assuming you'll use mostly lights, maybe some TV at night, charge cells and tablet and maybe a coffeemaker in the morning? When is it appropriate to switch to Lithium, maybe when the 6v batteries are at the end of their life? BTW how long on average do these 6v batteries last?

All batteries will do a good or great job for Escape series of trailers and all of the different types have pros and cons, but I think the biggest pro for Lithium today is weight savings.

I went with AGM right out of the gate as I like the no maintenance aspect of them. Before anyone goes on about how they don't add water to their lead acid or it is no big deal to add water yada yada yada, they still require maintenance and they off gas.

No right or wrong just what you want, that works for you.

[Ron in BC]

[QUOTE=Donna D.;273273]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

I don't have a clue what you're talking about. My only interest is deleting the non-applicable part of the post. I've never seen an example of what you're referring to as it looks OK to me.

Can you show me an example?

Ron QUOTE]


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ALL the brackets are required. And the forward slash to finish the code.
Attachment 35786

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So it comes out looking like this:




Hope this helps.

I hope so too, thanks

Ron

[gbaglo]

We have a winner!

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

I'm fixing them as I see them.... and he's not the only one. Be nice.

It was just a simple question. He has over 4,000 posts and I think it was fair to wonder why sometimes when he quotes he removes a bracket. Thanks for providing the graphics. Maybe someone else learned something too.

[gbaglo]

Maybe somebody can help me. Why can't I attach a photo to a personal message? Or can I?

[Chris R]

Did you try the poorly designed image icon? I have not tried it.

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by Chris R

Did you try the poorly designed image icon? I have not tried it.

As I recall, that requires you to post a URL or some such.

[marsman]

Really appreciate all the input, having never owned an RV the learning curve for us is going to be steep at first. My wife just reminded me that we have a coffee perker we use sometimes that makes good "campfire" style coffee so that would be a good solution to save power. Nice to hear that these installed batteries are good for occasional boondockers!

And I guess when they finally bite the bullet looks like I'm hearing that AGMs are a good solution Can't wait for the first time we're boondocking, we used to camp in tents when we were young'uns with little portable lanterns and blowup air mattesses, wow, now we'll be "GLAMPING"

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Greg A

This is quite a doable mod and the Morton’s on the Move have had it in place for a good bit and detail how they did it.

https://evannex.com/blogs/news/can-y...-tesla-battery

Thanks. That article that takes one minute to read actually provides some information:

In the second video, Tom explains the technical challenges he had to negotiate to incorporate the 24-volt Tesla module into his RV’s 12-volt DC system, using a 24-volt inverter and an MPPT solar charge controller - it’s “not a drop-in solution by any means.”

That addresses this issue:

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

It is also wired wrong for RV use, since the Model S/X has six groups of cells in series, giving a working voltage almost twice as high as desired for a 12-volt systems; the Model 3 modules are 23 and 25 cells in series (two different sizes) so they're wildly inappropriate for a 12-volt system. Who knows... maybe that's what he explained.

The need for an less common "24 volt" input inverter is one reason that the 22.5 V (nominal) Tesla module is a poor fit. It also suggests that the battery is only used to provide 120 V AC power, since even that additional component wouldn't provide 12-volt power.

And it's a series... so there's an hour of babbling there. It looks like one of the other parts might be useful.

[Kent]

Originally Posted by marsman

Really appreciate all the input, having never owned an RV the learning curve for us is going to be steep at first. My wife just reminded me that we have a coffee perker we use sometimes that makes good "campfire" style coffee so that would be a good solution to save power. Nice to hear that these installed batteries are good for occasional boondockers!

And I guess when they finally bite the bullet looks like I'm hearing that AGMs are a good solution Can't wait for the first time we're boondocking, we used to camp in tents when we were young'uns with little portable lanterns and blowup air mattesses, wow, now we'll be "GLAMPING"

Hey Marsman, if you have not see them you might want to check out the below link to YouTube. It is a couple that go by Explorist LIfe, who have Travel Van and discuss many DIY projects including solar, AGM and Lithium. Some of the stuff they discuss would apply to motorized RV or travel van without a converter, but most of there solar discussions would apply to Travel Trailers as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuZg4NasCVw

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

Maybe somebody can help me. Why can't I attach a photo to a personal message? Or can I?

Originally Posted by Chris R

Did you try the poorly designed image icon? I have not tried it.

Originally Posted by gbaglo

As I recall, that requires you to post a URL or some such.

That's right: while both PM's and forum posts include a feature to embed a link to an image (you click the icon and provide a URL), only the forum post - not the PM - include an "attachments" feature to let you upload an image that you have on your computer.

[stratos175]

I've never been much of a You Tube watcher until a few months ago and now I watch several a day 90% of them have something to do with RV camping. There are MANY videos there that cover all kinds of things with solar.
As someone stated if you plan on camping off the grid much solar is something you pretty much have to have and if I was living off that no doubt go lithium batteries.
What I have decided regarding this is wait a couple of years and see where the technology advances go when it comes to batteries and solar, plus then I hope to be camping more often and hope boondocking is a good bit of that.

Happy and safe holidays to all.

Steve

[cpaharley2008]

Back on topic, I'm more or less afraid of Lithium batteries, particularly while being charged. I had a bad experience on my Harley charging one and know of someone who's house was destroyed in a fire caused by the lithium charger in their garage. I'm staying away until I have to.

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by stratos175

What I have decided regarding this is wait a couple of years and see where the technology advances go when it comes to batteries and solar, plus then I hope to be camping more often and hope boondocking is a good bit of that.

I don't know how many times I have used this strategy of waiting to see where a technology goes only to find once a technology gets developed, there is a new one to wait for on the horizon.

Often using an existing proven technology while others are being developed works fine, as it is often better than nothing and a lot more affordable than leading edge stuff.

[alanmalk]

Love my pour-over coffee, love my AGM batteries (2x12v parallel), and will be an early adopter of Lithium batteries - when they reach prime time. My back won't let me lift the 70 pounds of lead from under the seat any more.
And for what it's worth - personally, would rather read a 200 page technical manual than watch a 20 minute video. But that's strictly personal...

--
Alan

[bdornbush]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

Back on topic, I'm more or less afraid of Lithium batteries, particularly while being charged. I had a bad experience on my Harley charging one and know of someone who's house was destroyed in a fire caused by the lithium charger in their garage. I'm staying away until I have to.

There are different chemistries in Lithium batteries. LiPo batteries are the ones that catch fire. I have some LiFePo4 batteries for my ham radio that don't catch fire even if punctured so that is what I would get if I were putting Lithium batteries in my RV. See for example: https://www.bioennopower.com/collect...epo4-batteries

[Mike Lewis]

Originally Posted by alanmalk

And for what it's worth - personally, would rather read a 200 page technical manual than watch a 20 minute video. But that's strictly personal...

--
Alan

No kidding. I assumed it would be easier to write than to make a video, but I guess I'm wrong, since there are lots of instructional videos out there. I'd rather read and keep the document for reference.

[Kingbiscuit]

Originally Posted by Mike Lewis

No kidding. I assumed it would be easier to write than to make a video, but I guess I'm wrong, since there are lots of instructional videos out there. I'd rather read and keep the document for reference.

These folks make some if not all of their living by posting YouTube videos. I dropped TV cable 5 or 6 years ago and most of the TV I watch is YouTube.

There are some great channels out there on pretty much anything, especially the "Nomadic Lifestyle" that appears to have really become the thing to do.


Some of my favorites:

Gone With The Wynns who were originally in an RV now sailing around the world.

Sailing SV Delos

Less Junk More Journey

Nomadic Fanatic

Keep Your Daydream

The list of RV/Nomad channels is long and growing longer by the day. Check them out, you might like it

[Defenestrator]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

Back on topic, I'm more or less afraid of Lithium batteries, particularly while being charged. I had a bad experience on my Harley charging one and know of someone who's house was destroyed in a fire caused by the lithium charger in their garage. I'm staying away until I have to.

The LiFePo4 chemistry batteries are pretty safe and won't catch on fire even if you drastically overcharge them then poke a hole in them. I wouldn't want to sit there breathing the electrolyte they vent, necessarily, but it's better than the explosive hydrogen and caustic sulfuric acid that lead-acid batteries spew when they fail. The downside is that they're more expensive and less energy-dense than NCA (what Tesla uses) or NMC (most common for electric cars) batteries.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by bdornbush

There are different chemistries in Lithium batteries. LiPo batteries are the ones that catch fire. I have some LiFePo4 batteries for my ham radio that don't catch fire even if punctured so that is what I would get if I were putting Lithium batteries in my RV. See for example: https://www.bioennopower.com/collect...epo4-batteries

Yes, but LiPo isn't a chemistry - it means lithium-polymer, and describes the electrolyte, not the electrodes. The other terms are all electrode material (and thus chemistry) descriptions. The chemistry determines the operating voltage and other characteristics; the electrolyte type and construction is important to durability and rate of charge/discharge. "LiPo" cells are often designed for high discharge rate with little regard to durability or safety.

Most of the current chemistries:

• lithium cobalt oxide (LiCoO2, a.k.a. LCO)
• lithium iron phosphate (LiFePO4, a.k.a. LFP)
• lithium ion manganese oxide battery (LiMn2O4, Li2MnO3, a.k.a LMO)
• lithium nickel manganese cobalt oxide (LiNiMnCoO2, a.k.a NMC)
• lithium nickel cobalt aluminum oxide (LiNiCoAlO2, a.k.a. NCA)
• lithium titanate (Li4Ti5O12, a.k.a. LTO)

As already mentioned, LFP could be considered the "gold standard" for stability and usability in an RV style of application, while production EVs typical use some of the others. A lot of do-it-yourself conversions of cars to electric have used LFP, because individual cells in their own rectangular cases ("prismatic" cells) have readily available (such as from CALB)... but they're too expensive and too heavy and bulky for their performance compared to salvaged battery modules from production EVs, so they're not used much anymore. The CALB cells still make some sense for an RV, if you add a battery management system.