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Old 03-17-2017, 09:40 AM   #1
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Has anyone ever proposed leaving the front bed area open in the Escape 21. The rear becomes the bed. I would then have narrow custom storage built along the driver side and front wall. The front would be a small fireplace and television cabinet. That would leave a small seating area. The side wall could incorporate a flip up table for dinning. There would be some narrow formica counter top along the wall for appliances.
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Old 03-17-2017, 10:14 AM   #2
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Welcome to the site.

I guess I would have to open with a question, and that would be what is your intent behind doing this?

I think you are trying to fit too much into that front space. A reversed plan has been proposed before, but I never heard of one that really works, though who knows, if done right it might be fine. You would lose the nice viewing from the dinette, but on the positive side you would move the bed from front and center.

The dinette area would make an odd sized bed, at 86" x 48"(?).

Another thing to consider is the mechanicals that are under the bed in the existing layout. Where would they go.

As well, would Escape be willing to do even enough of this change to accommodate your own custom work later? I am willing to bet you will run into a stumbling block there, as they are limiting the custom work they do now, to keep production times met.
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Old 03-17-2017, 10:25 AM   #3
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I think the idea is interesting. But as Jim said, where would all the mechanicals go? Too, ETI works hard to balance the weight of the trailer for safe towing. What you're proposing may throw that balance off to the point the trailer becomes very unstable.
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Old 03-17-2017, 12:31 PM   #4
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You have your black tank under the bed and you water heater, in addition the bed and the cabinets maybe structural components which are needed. What you do after delivery is fine, but Escape will not build a compromised unit if they feel it is.
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Old 03-17-2017, 08:42 PM   #5
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Yes, all good points. The mechanicals stay right where they are. Cabinets would be built around them and not limiting access.

I camp alone. So space in the trailer is not an issue for me.

There are at least two things one should never disturb-the delicate balance of nature and balance of a towed trailer.

I am not new to either, I have twenty plus years of camping, five Tin and Sticks, three Silverado and Avalanche.

I will not request anything of the people at ETI(except advice). I will fully outfit my trailer with my desired options, pay my fee and proceed.
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Old 03-17-2017, 08:54 PM   #6
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A Hornets nest is another thing one should not disturb! LOL

That is a thread in itself-"Things one should not disturb............."
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Old 03-17-2017, 09:00 PM   #7
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Yes, all good points. The mechanicals stay right where they are. Cabinets would be built around them and not limiting access.

I camp alone. So space in the trailer is not an issue for me.

There are at least two things one should never disturb-the delicate balance of nature and balance of a towed trailer.

I am not new to either, I have twenty plus years of camping, five Tin and Sticks, three Silverado and Avalanche.

I will not request anything of the people at ETI(except advice). I will fully outfit my trailer with my desired options, pay my fee and proceed.
I think I understand what you are going to do . It should work as long as you cover the items at front of trailer . Spanning the whole front if the bed is there for structure . Probably spanning the driverside . Maybe a desk or . Am I close . Now getting Escape to eliminate what you don't want . Pat
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Old 03-17-2017, 10:59 PM   #8
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Has anyone ever proposed leaving the front bed area open in the Escape 21. The rear becomes the bed. I would then have narrow custom storage built along the driver side and front wall. The front would be a small fireplace and television cabinet. That would leave a small seating area. The side wall could incorporate a flip up table for dinning. There would be some narrow formica counter top along the wall for appliances.
considered something similar to what you are proposing some time back. If you are solo, it's certainly an interesting idea with lots of room. Should be easy to do some rough designs, perhaps even using simple CAD software and build pics on this forum. Perhaps seeing a Escape 21 locally would help you conceptualize the mechanics better. Remember also about the floor to window height, as it probably would be similar to the Escape 19 dinette... meaning it may not be optimal for viewing out the window when seated unless you design for that. Wonder what ETI would credit you for the elimination of the bed materials/labor.
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Old 03-18-2017, 06:40 AM   #9
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These are just ideas at this stage. There are a multitude of cabinet shops north of DFW. I would have the woodwork match and only add minimal amount of cabinets.The outgoing mattress and structure for the bed would be weighed to get a number. Then the ingoing would be weighed to get another number. They may be close. Then in the rear I know I would be adding weight(structure/mattress). This might change the tongue weight. I would have to seek balance at three to four points.
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Old 03-18-2017, 10:08 PM   #10
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Do not disturb

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A Hornets nest is another thing one should not disturb! LOL

That is a thread in itself-"Things one should not disturb............."
Yes, somebody needs to start that one. I can think of several instances where I made what I like to call a tactical error. Most of mine revolve around wildlife, farm animals and people sleeping.
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Old 03-19-2017, 07:16 AM   #11
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Years ago my brother and I had an old Road Ranger/tin and stick. It had two beds in the rear, a kitchen and bath in the middle, the front was open with a flip up table and two swivel chairs. We could stay out all day and evening and then come in and relax in those chairs. They were very handy in the morning for watching news and having coffee. In the morning I would start the coffee go outside in my pajamas restart the fire pit and go back in and have breakfast. The whole point is I enjoy at least a small open area in a trailer for very comfortable chairs. The kind of chair in a Casita Freedom. I have been to that factory twice. I live 80 miles from it. That will probably be my temporary trailer while I wait for my Escape to be built.
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Old 03-19-2017, 11:58 AM   #12
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Spanning the whole front if the bed is there for structure . Probably spanning the driverside . Maybe a desk or . Am I close . Now getting Escape to eliminate what you don't want . Pat
The 21 bed framing is a bunch of 1x2s screwed together - not continuous pieces of wood. I reframed my bed area to provide an inclined sleeping platform; nothing was tied into the shell for structural support.
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Old 03-19-2017, 12:22 PM   #13
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The 21 bed framing is a bunch of 1x2s screwed together - not continuous pieces of wood. I reframed my bed area to provide an inclined sleeping platform; nothing was tied into the shell for structural support.
someone else wanted to remove and have chairs and was told you can't part of structure . I have thought myself , the dinette is uncomfortable . Pat
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Old 03-19-2017, 02:34 PM   #14
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someone else wanted to remove and have chairs and was told you can't part of structure . Pat
This is a 21 bed area build pic. The few glassed in mounting blocks for the bed framing attachment are the only things that I would consider structural - one could use those as attachment points for dinette framing as in the rear. Personally I think the ceiling wood that's glassed in front to back is the load-spreading structure - there's no heavy load (like the A/C) on the front half of the trailer. The light coming through the shell on the right shows where the reinforcements are located
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Old 03-19-2017, 02:54 PM   #15
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This is a 21 bed area build pic. The few glassed in mounting blocks for the bed framing attachment are the only things that I would consider structural - one could use those as attachment points for dinette framing as in the rear. Personally I think the ceiling wood that's glassed in front to back is the load-spreading structure - there's no heavy load (like the A/C) on the front half of the trailer. The light coming through the shell on the right shows where the reinforcements are located
Charley it doesn't show the blocks under the installation . The bed framing does have horizontal framing , going across I would believe . Also the framing around the water heater , etc. as Ron showed our bed frame pieces are just all screwed into the plywood , however there is a horizontal piece running the back length . Pat
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Old 03-19-2017, 02:55 PM   #16
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Charley it doesn't show the blocks under the installation . The bed framing does have horizontal framing , going across I would believe . Also the framing around the water heater , etc. as Ron showed our bed frame pieces are just all screwed into the plywood , however there is a horizontal piece running the back length . Pat
Your next. Picture shows it running at the bottom . Pat
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Old 03-19-2017, 03:56 PM   #17
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Yes, I believe it is in the realm of possibilities. The very front would be floor to ceiling woodwork and tie into the top cabinets actually strengthening the front wall.Then there would be a narrow run of cabinet from the floor up a ways and run south to the hot water heater which would remain in place. That would become the footstool/chair. Incorporating a "flipup" table would make the area more functional. A Euro style recliner would complete the area.
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Old 03-19-2017, 04:08 PM   #18
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Yes, I believe it is in the realm of possibilities. The very front would be floor to ceiling woodwork and tie into the top cabinets actually strengthening the front wall.Then there would be a narrow run of cabinet from the floor up a ways and run south to the hot water heater which would remain in place. That would become the footstool/chair. Incorporating a "flipup" table would make the area more functional. A Euro style recliner would complete the area.
Sounds good to me . Pat
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