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Old 03-14-2016, 09:06 PM   #1
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U-shaped Dinette - A Further Discussion

I know some of the input I will be looking for here has been discussed in part in lots of other threads, but I wanted to start one more pertinent to my own build.

When the U-shaped dinette first came out, I was not liking the idea all that much, as I could not fathom losing table size. A large table was a bit part of how we used our 19, as it was a marshalling area more than an eating area, as to date we mostly eat outdoors. Camera gear, clothing, dishes, food, etc all was temporarily set on the table. This was handy in the 19, as the table is right by the door.

Now moving on to the 5.0TA (with the same dinette as the 21), I started to reconsider. I do like the look, and there is a good chance we will spend more time in the trailer in the future, with quite a few extended trips planned. I quite like the idea of an area where one could lounge a bit. Some loss of table size is not as big of a deal, as we would not use it for temporary storage of items going in and out of the trailer, as it is far removed from the doorway. Plus, the dinette is wider than in our 19, so the loss of size would not be that big.

I had never actually sat in a U-shaped dinette until a few weeks ago, in Chris R's when we visited him and Ida in Victoria.

As it turns out, the added rear bench is not really useful as a seat, as it is to narrow to sit on. As well, I was very turned off by the limited floor space. We do entertain other couples, often playing cards at the table, and with the pedestal there, there really would be little room for four sets of feet. Very cramped.

Why would the U-shape be any more conducive to lounging? Is it a wider place to put feet up? If this was the case, one could easily just add a board across, with an extra cushion on top.

I do realize there is storage space gained, because the batteries and converter panel both get housed under the rear bench. That is a plus. What I wonder, is could this rear bench be made even narrower, and yet still house these components? This seems like a winning situation if doable, as it would only make the unusable/unneeded seat narrower, and give more floor space. Maybe even if it house the converter and a few other electronic/electrical items, and the batteries are moved, it could definitely be made a lot narrower.

As a bit of a side note, I am considering AGM batteries. Am I right in assuming that they don't need a battery box and venting? This alone would allow a couple more inches for the back seat to narrow.

Even if I went with a U-shaped dinette, I would likely forgo the rear backrest, and instead just have two large throw pillows, that could either be used in a back corner, or against the galley or fridge cabinet for when we want to stretch out and put our feet up. Again I wonder at the need for the back bench to facilitate this.

To be honest, with the cabinet work I plan to do, I will extract hordes of usable cabinet/drawer storage, so any not gained with the U-shape, would be more than made up for.

Whichever way I go, I plan to do the single Dicor pedestal with the 4-way sliding top. I also plan to have the table to be resized, most likely by folded the outsides on top of the middle to create a table half the size. Plans can, and do change though.

This is a table top like I am describing.


This is just a wee insight to about 2% of all the considerations and planning I have done for my upcoming 5.0TA, but most I got figured out already. On this topic, I could use some thoughts and input.
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Old 03-14-2016, 09:30 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Jim Bennett View Post
Why would the U-shape be any more conducive to lounging? Is it a wider place to put feet up? If this was the case, one could easily just add a board across, with an extra cushion on top.
How tall are you? I'm 5'10" with a 34" inseam, so sitting on the regular bench seat was too short for me to stretch out with the feet towards the kitchen. In the evenings, I plan to do a lot of reading, so once I sat on the u-shaped dinette with one filler board, it was a no-brainer for me to get that. Lots of room for the butt, thighs and long legs to stretch out. And have room for the cat(s) next to me.

I never contemplated putting a board across the back instead of the bench seat that would be there when you get the u-shape. Just one more thing to haul in and out of the trailer when I'd need it. Or find a place to stash when you don't need it. I knew we wouldn't be using the table (in fact, it's not even going to get installed for us), so that didn't come into the equation.

If entertaining another couple for card playing on the table (inside the trailer) is a high priority for you, then you probably won't want the u-shape as it'll cut into your seating space.
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Old 03-14-2016, 09:36 PM   #3
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We love the U in our 19 Jim, and have had both types. For us though the big advantage of the U as a lounge to watch TV, etc. is when the table is removed. The space is way more usable and seems much larger to stretch out. Since you are going with the permanent table I don't know that you would get the full advantage of having the U. We do sit four around the table for dinner and the rear seating is fine on the U. Just some feedback to kick around.
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Old 03-14-2016, 09:41 PM   #4
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How tall are you?
I am 6'0" with a 34" inseam. I don't quite get the advantage of back bench for lounging, let alone this filler board. How do you two plan to 'lounge'?

Lots of place to stash stuff, a removable bench seat would be easy. Don't you plan to do the same with this filler board?

A table is very important to use, one of the key features for a trailer. When the grandkids are with us, they love hanging out in the trailer, and we would like lots of room for their activities. Plus as stated, for friends eating inside with us and playing games. For the most part, camping for us is a very social thing, and most of the time we have a lot of friends and family around.
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Old 03-14-2016, 09:45 PM   #5
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U-shaped Dinette - A Further Discussion

Jim we had a second smaller table made up that we use when we have people in and are just sitting around. Good for drinks and nibblies. This leaves just the 2 of us lots of room to lounge with our feet up. We too have had both and much prefer the u shape dinette, but remember what works for one might not work for another.

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Old 03-14-2016, 09:47 PM   #6
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Since you are going with the permanent table....
I have plans for making it removable, though not certain yet. It would not be hard to do. I would put some kind of cleats that the base of the pedestal would slide in to.

We have never been ones to watch TV in our trailer. However, this might be something that changes once we start to do these extended trips. We might just go with a smaller TV or a laptop that is closer to us.

Part of the reason I want a way to have the table made smaller, is to give us more room, yet still have a coffee table to use. With the 4-way slide, we could move it right out of the way, and sit side by each.
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Old 03-14-2016, 09:47 PM   #7
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We don't have much experience yet either way but are planning to have it both ways. We currently have the regular dinette with the marine pedestal for our full size table. We will use that table whenever we travel with others. I intend to have a separate smaller table built (along with a same sized seat cushion) that we will swap out when we travel just the two of us. The smaller table will be good for the 2 of us when we need to be indoors for a meal or whatever, and can be dropped to form a lounge with the new seat cushion when needed.
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Old 03-14-2016, 09:49 PM   #8
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Jim we had a second smaller table made up that we use when we have people in and are just sitting around. Good for drinks and nibblies. This leaves just the 2 of us lots of room to lounge with our feet up. We too have had both and much prefer the u shape dinette, but remember what works for one might not work for another.

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We don't have much experience yet either way but are planning to have it both ways. We currently have the regular dinette with the marine pedestal for our full size table. We will use that table whenever we travel with others. I intend to have a separate smaller table built (along with a same sized seat cushion) that we will swap out when we travel just the two of us. The smaller table will be good for the 2 of us when we need to be indoors for a meal or whatever, and can be dropped to form a lounge with the new seat cushion when needed.
The potential for a smaller table, in one way or the other, whether or not we go with the U-shape, is a must.
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Old 03-14-2016, 09:49 PM   #9
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Jim- having had both I can see where you are coming from. You could have a filler board, or two to span the width instead of a permanent u-shape configuration and store one or even two boards under you mattress as we do. Realizing this makes me think that could have been the way for us(currently have u-shape).

Am interested in doing what drpaddle did with his smaller table and re-introduce that into our 21. The standard table for us was too big, however their design would work very well given that we use that bed for both lounging and as another bunk.
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Old 03-14-2016, 10:06 PM   #10
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Tables

We've shown our smaller removable table that allows easier access to our U shaped dinette to a number of people. This table is slightly shorter with a narrower front than the original. Other than accounting analysis by Jim Norman which made me conclude I have $700 dollars in the table ( his calculation) everybody else has been complimentary. We've been very happy with it. Jim used the old joke sheet about installing a wood burning furnace as his accounting guide. Just kidding Jim, you can come over for Jalapeño Spam anytime.
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Old 03-14-2016, 10:07 PM   #11
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Jim- having had both I can see where you are coming from. You could have a filler board, or two to span the width instead of a permanent u-shape configuration and store one or even two boards under you mattress as we do. Realizing this makes me think that could have been the way for us(currently have u-shape).

Am interested in doing what drpaddle did with his smaller table and re-introduce that into our 21. The standard table for us was too big, however their design would work very well given that we use that bed for both lounging and as another bunk.
As with the seat in the rear of the U-shape, I am missing the purpose of the filler boards. I assume you are not talking about ones that would work to make up the bed.

I am not recalling just what drpaddle did. Was it just to make the table smaller than standard? I do agree that the full sized table is very big, and imagine it would only get used for when there is more than the two of us.

Another thing for us, for the next few years, I would like to take my mother with us on a trip or two per year. Plus, we hope to have the grandkids with us some times too. For this, we would need to make the dinette into a bed.
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Old 03-14-2016, 10:21 PM   #12
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Google Toto Escape Forum and you will see the blog. It's also on the forum, however they did a very complete job of documenting what they did.

The filler board gives you more seating on the back seat. We have had ours pinned in place as to not having to remove during travel and have a second one for when making the bunk. Toto's design improves on that as the first filer board is hybrid between board & table. In reviewing specs tonight it seemed the Dicor pedestal may not work. however the other one has the advantage of turning at least 90 degrees.
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Old 03-14-2016, 10:31 PM   #13
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We have had both - Ushaped in Escape 19 and standard in other trailers. We lounge on the dinettes - front to back and not on the Ubench

If we got another one we would order the standard dinette with the table 6-10" (or so) shorter than the full size table. I would probably add a drop leaf filler board at the front of table with no slider needed - like this: Flip Flop Table Hinge | HardwareSource.com or this: Drop Leaf Restaurant Tables - Flip Top Tables

For 2 people that gives you a 75-85% size table slid to the front of the trailer so no need to move it (with food and drinks on it.) And the drop leaf to get a full sized table for 4.
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Old 03-15-2016, 12:00 AM   #14
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Hmmm...good topic.

Jim, I'm pondering the same for my 21. My credo has always been: Plan for the Worst but Hope for the Best, so here's what I've got planned.

I'm going with the u-shaped dinette with a Springfield pedestal base and a tv on the refrig wall and 2 LED reading lights and flip-up counter extensions, figuring we're going to spend time luxuriating at the "lounge".

If that doesn't pan out, I have a full table coming with our formica choice to convert the dinette into a ready for this, a dinette! No filler board needed, the back of the dinette base will serve that purpose.

I'm also having a spare sat tv cable run and coiled from the dinette tv to the drawer stack where I'm having connections and a power set up for a possible second or maybe relocated tv. If the "lounge" serves us better as a dinette, the tv will move up front and well move our luxuriating up front to the bed (calm down everybody, after 40 years, the most common form of luxuriating there is watching tv!).
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Old 03-15-2016, 05:58 AM   #15
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Jim,
With the table removed and the insert in place we place our backs against the stooge tables with the big cushions and stretch our legs across the back. This can also sleep one adult or 2 grandkids in this configuration. Alternately we move the cushions to the corners and flip up the stooge tables for snacks or computer use or watching tv mounted on the refer wall. We prefer this setup for its practicality.
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Old 03-15-2016, 06:33 AM   #16
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Without reading all the posts above...

I'm 6'2", have the standard size table on the Springfield pedestal, slides front to back.

We use the table all the time, have no plans on removing the table especially now with the Springfield. I did try dropping the table last spring on a fishing trip during 3 days of rain, worked well when it was just me. Deb has no interest in trying it in lounge mode so the table stays up when it's the 2 of us.

In practice we use the back seat bench to hold stuff when stationary, books, laptop, or whatever craft Deb is into that day. The size of the table and the back bench work great for us this way.

We've tried sitting at the back seat and find it totally unacceptable, I suppose the grandkids could slide in there to eat but that would be about it. The U dinette would not be an option if I were concerned with seating 4.

I am going to make a little bit smaller table top and see how that works out, I don't think we need it as big as it is. Making it smaller would allow for easier egress. I may also move the pedestal back another inch or so, I centered it on the placement of the original legs and find it now doesn't slide back far enough.
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Old 03-15-2016, 06:38 AM   #17
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I'm confused Bob,
Do you have the "U" set up, you mention the back seat sitting is unacceptable but then mention that you have the standard size table?
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Old 03-15-2016, 07:43 AM   #18
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We really went back and forth on the u-shaped. The idea of a smaller table did not bother us. We ended up getting it, with the 12'' filler board. Hopefully we will like it as much as we think we will.
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Old 03-15-2016, 07:47 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossue View Post
Google Toto Escape Forum and you will see the blog. It's also on the forum, however they did a very complete job of documenting what they did.

The filler board gives you more seating on the back seat. We have had ours pinned in place as to not having to remove during travel and have a second one for when making the bunk. Toto's design improves on that as the first filer board is hybrid between board & table. In reviewing specs tonight it seemed the Dicor pedestal may not work. however the other one has the advantage of turning at least 90 degrees.
I did find followtoto.com, thanks. Some good thoughts to throw in with what I have going.

I finally get it now with the filler board, it give you a wide enough seat at the rear, so one could sit there. What I have to wonder, is the need to sit there.

I think with the right adjustable table top, and the Dicor 4-way slide, that there would be no advantage to the top turning, though I have considered adding that too.
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We have had both - Ushaped in Escape 19 and standard in other trailers. We lounge on the dinettes - front to back and not on the Ubench

If we got another one we would order the standard dinette with the table 6-10" (or so) shorter than the full size table. I would probably add a drop leaf filler board at the front of table with no slider needed - like this: Flip Flop Table Hinge | HardwareSource.com or this: Drop Leaf Restaurant Tables - Flip Top Tables

For 2 people that gives you a 75-85% size table slid to the front of the trailer so no need to move it (with food and drinks on it.) And the drop leaf to get a full sized table for 4.
Sitting front to back lounging is what I envision, with a cozy oversized throw pillow as a backrest. This way I can be looking out the rear windows for daydreaming, or turn around and look into the trailer for socializing.

Even if I get the standard dinette, I too am considering a table a bit shorter. Adding a filler at the back would make a good holding spot for things wanted handy, but not on the table.

I have both those items bookmarked in my browser, and have considered them. Unless the drop leafs are quite small, they will not work with the Dicor 4-way.

I have also considered using leafs in the table. I had an example found for what I am thinking, but can't find it now. Basically on each side of the table, there would be a roughly 2" section that slides out, allowing me to drop in leafs about 8" each which would bring the table to full size, for more usable space, and to double as a platform for a full bed.
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I'm going with the u-shaped dinette with a Springfield pedestal base and a tv on the refrig wall and 2 LED reading lights and flip-up counter extensions, figuring we're going to spend time luxuriating at the "lounge".

I'm also having a spare sat tv cable run and coiled from the dinette tv to the drawer stack where I'm having connections and a power set up for a possible second or maybe relocated tv. If the "lounge" serves us better as a dinette, the tv will move up front and well move our luxuriating up front to the bed (calm down everybody, after 40 years, the most common form of luxuriating there is watching tv!).
For TV, I am considering both locations. Maybe none for now, but maybe roughed in for future use. One would either be sitting side-by-side at the dinette with the TV on the other side of the dinette. This is where a nice coffee table sized table would be great, slide over away from us. Before actually laying in a loft of a 5.0TA I had considered the bed to be a good place to watch some TV too, though with the sloped front of the loft, it is not conducive to sitting up very much, but maybe some kind of support could be made with pillows or something.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008 View Post
Jim,
With the table removed and the insert in place we place our backs against the stooge tables with the big cushions and stretch our legs across the back. This can also sleep one adult or 2 grandkids in this configuration. Alternately we move the cushions to the corners and flip up the stooge tables for snacks or computer use or watching tv mounted on the refer wall. We prefer this setup for its practicality.
I am not sure what you mean by stooge table. I googled it and came up with nothing but some funny skits by the Three Stooges. Are they a similar idea to the fold-up tables? If so, I think I would rather have a small table to use instead. Maybe just because that is what I am used to.

I had not considered a bed not being the full size of the dinette, but for one that is a good consideration.
Quote:
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In practice we use the back seat bench to hold stuff when stationary, books, laptop, or whatever craft Deb is into that day. The size of the table and the back bench work great for us this way.

We've tried sitting at the back seat and find it totally unacceptable, I suppose the grandkids could slide in there to eat but that would be about it. The U dinette would not be an option if I were concerned with seating 4.
Using the back bench just as a holding spot sounds like what I forsee as the best use for it too.

I don't see any good reason to actually sit on the back bench. If made wide enough to be useful, it would just take away from the effectiveness of the side benches. No matter which dinette setup one goes for, there really is only room for four adults to fit comfortably. With the U-shape, and sitting at the back it seems to me that you just lose table size, and end up with cramped feet.

--------------

This thread is great. It really has lots of considerations flowing through me wee brain. Exactly how the pedestal and table function is something I will set up after taking delivery, but I would like to figure out the configuration of the benches first, as I want that all built, and the cushions made.

I am now wondering even more if that back bench could be made even narrower. I have looked inside one, but don't really remember how much space there was for the battery box, and how much narrower it could be if I used AGM batteries without the box instead.
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Old 03-15-2016, 09:12 AM   #20
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Hi: Jim Bennett... I made a filler board also. Mine is a bit different though. The piece of Birch ply I bought was wider than the 12" needed so I took my circular saw and cut a round hole that fits around the front table leg. It acts as a stabilizer so the U-dine table can stay up while travelling. More stuff can be stowed under the table and outa site. Alf
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