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Old 11-14-2018, 03:20 PM   #21
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Underbelly Foam

Quote:
Originally Posted by the5reeds View Post
I picked up my new 19 yesterday and am on my 2nd day camping. Everything is great, but to my surprise, there was no underbelly spray foam as I expected. When I initially asked for a quote, I asked for it, and it was on the initial quote, but never made it on the build sheet. I missed it and so did they..oh well. So I'm trying to decide if I want to get a kit and insulate it myself, or just let it go. I did get extra insulation and double pane sliders.....thoughts?
I might be wrong but I believe the foam is installed with the unit upside down and the foam finds its own level via gravity ( someone please correct me here if that’s not the case) I’m thinking it might be a real mess to retrofit expandable foam. After taking a look at the bottom of my 17b, I think I would be able to insulate it with rigid foam, fiberglass batt and or eurethane foam and then protect the insulation with plastic Rv belly pan material screwed to the bottom of the frame similar to what is done on stick built trailers. You would have to do a little framing around the fresh tank and maybe ad lib a little around the waste dump pipe. You might even get a better r factor with this method. Incidentally my 17 b has the insulation , thermal windows and underbelly insulation and it performs wonderfully even in sub zero Fahrenheit weather. Cozy as heck. The only problem I have is at extreme low temperatures Ithe perimeter of the mattress gets soaked with condensation. 4 or 5 layers of reflectix bubble wrap eliminates 95 percent of this problem. Also,as soon as temperatures get above freezing open the windows and run the exhaust fan for an hour to eliminate excess moisture
https://www.google.com/search?q=plas...obile&ie=UTF-8
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Old 11-14-2018, 07:19 PM   #22
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There are a lot of good opinions and advise so far on this thread. I'd like to summarize here.

First of all, It's an RV. The trip back to Chilliwack is just another excuse to go on a trip so no big deal there. It's even a plus if you are so inclined. It would be a good chance to fix any problems you might have found also.

I agree that sprayed in place foam is a better thing than applied rigid boards or (horror) fiberglass. Covering over some other insulation with the plastic under pan typical of stick built RVs would not be as good as sprayed in place insulation.

You could DIY with kits. I've looked at this option myself for other things. It's a bit tricky but not out of the question. The thing is, you can do some bad things by spraying it in the wrong place but if you have some good sense that shouldn't be a problem.

The spray foam goes on as liquid droplets that immediately expand into foam and within a few seconds turn solid. It isn't a problem applying the stuff overhead but you would probably want a tyvek suit and a face mask all the same.

There are different kinds of foam and they are made for different uses. The kind you would typically use for the underside of your Escape comes in three grades. The lightest stuff has more R value per inch but it is pretty soft and easily damaged. The middle grade has a lower R value but is stronger. The heaviest stuff is rated to resist hail damage on roofs. It's pretty hard. You can walk on it, even stomp on it, and it survives.

I had the inside of my shop done in the mid grade stuff. It is pretty stout. Just about everyone who has ever entered the shop has poked at it and it still doesn't have a dent. When I had to remove some of it around an outlet it took some real effort to pull chunks off even after I had cut around them. It cost me $5000 to have a crew spray a 24' X 30' arch, about 1200 sq.ft. , 3 inches thick, more or less.

The factory offer of $800 is a bit high but keep in mind that they will know what they are doing and will get it right. I spent a lot of time cleaning foam off things that shouldn't have been sprayed in my shop.

One thing I would find important about spraying the floor is the corrosion protection it would offer. Not that there is a lot on an Escape to corrode but what little there is would be protected.

The sooner you get this done the better because you don't want to seal in any road grime and the cleaner the floor is the better the foam will stick. On a clean surface it sticks really well, like you can't get it off.
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Old 11-14-2018, 08:03 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSiepierski View Post
I might be wrong but I believe the foam is installed with the unit upside down and the foam finds its own level via gravity ( someone please correct me here if that’s not the case) I’m thinking it might be a real mess to retrofit expandable foam.
As mizterwizard explained, it basically sticks where sprayed. The trailer is just raised on a lift for the plumbing and wiring work underneath, and the foam is sprayed on after the rest of the underfloor work is done. When the same foam is used to insulate buildings, it is mostly sprayed into vertical wall cavities, but it can sprayed on a ceiling as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DSiepierski View Post
After taking a look at the bottom of my 17b, I think I would be able to insulate it with rigid foam, fiberglass batt and or eurethane foam and then protect the insulation with plastic Rv belly pan material screwed to the bottom of the frame similar to what is done on stick built trailers.
That could work, although the insulating value of fiberglass batts is much lower than of the spray foam, but I wouldn't want to make screw holes in the bottom of the frame tubes. I would screw brackets onto the inboard sides of the frames tubes and attach the protective sheet to that.
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Old 11-14-2018, 08:16 PM   #24
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Interestingly I have the opposite problem, the more foam I drink, the bigger my under belly grows.....
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Old 11-14-2018, 08:18 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008 View Post
Interestingly I have the opposite problem, the more foam I drink, the bigger my under belly grows.....
As I said earlier, there are different kinds and grades of foam.
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Old 11-14-2018, 09:49 PM   #26
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tonight's foam is a growler of Seabright Brewing's lovely Oatmeal Stout. mmm!MMM! good!
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Old 11-15-2018, 09:44 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the5reeds View Post
I picked up my new 19 yesterday and am on my 2nd day camping. Everything is great, but to my surprise, there was no underbelly spray foam as I expected. When I initially asked for a quote, I asked for it, and it was on the initial quote, but never made it on the build sheet. I missed it and so did they..oh well. So I'm trying to decide if I want to get a kit and insulate it myself, or just let it go. I did get extra insulation and double pane sliders.....thoughts?
Late responding to this thread but I would like to add a few comments.

I ordered the extra interior insulation and window upgrade package for my 17B but not the undercarriage foam insulation. It all came down to whether I felt the trailer could handle sub-freezing temperatures. I have a full four season RV that has heated tanks, heated dump valves and all interior water lines. You cannot get that level of freezing protection on the Escape as the tanks and dump valves are not enclosed nor heated. They will eventually freeze up in cold weather.

I agree that the foam insulation will provide some degree of floor warmth. So would an additional floor runner with a 1/2 inch underlay.

I like the mods I see with the rigid foam installed underneath the exposed floor. That will be a project for next summer.

Good luck whatever you decide.
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Old 11-15-2018, 10:56 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSiepierski View Post
and then protect the insulation with plastic Rv belly pan material screwed to the bottom of the frame s]
My rigid foam has done the Alaska Hwy., across Canada and the US coast to coast hitting every summer gravel detour and Baja twice. It's still in perfect condition. Nothing else is required to cover it. The surface of rigid foam appears to be more damage resistant than sprayed foam. I did paint my foam black before installation.

No holes are required to be drilled in the frame or floor. You can see on my thread how to attach metal backup straps to the existing bolts.

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Old 11-15-2018, 01:58 PM   #29
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So now I'm thinking maybe I should insulate these two water feeds. Seems like a useful hedge, a harmless, minimalist effort to protect exposed lines from freezing temps.
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Old 11-15-2018, 02:33 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by MyronL View Post
So now I'm thinking maybe I should insulate these two water feeds. Seems like a useful hedge, a harmless, minimalist effort to protect exposed lines from freezing temps.
Myron: That clear pump intake line is what just froze on me up in Erie. Insulation will only go so far without the area being heated in some way. That is why I am going to move some water inside and try this:
http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f3...tml#post269240

I should add that your next problem becomes the gray water tank unless you catch your sink water in a dishpan and dispose outside or have a way of continuous draining of the gray tank. This also assumes the shower is not used and the trap has some antifreeze added as it sits below the shell.
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Old 11-15-2018, 06:44 PM   #31
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When I leave Washington state in the winter to camp in the desert, I usually don't bother with de-winterizing until I get to warmer weather. I just bring a big container of water for use and the toilet.
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Old 11-15-2018, 09:19 PM   #32
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Rubie, using the winterizing tee line under the bed to suck clear water from a big jug into the system is a really clever idea. Hats off! My trailer is currently winterized but I will try that in a week or two when we plan to take it out for a few days.

I also don't plan on de-winterizing until we hit warmer weather.
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Old 11-16-2018, 06:35 AM   #33
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Quote:
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Rubie, using the winterizing tee line under the bed to suck clear water from a big jug into the system is a really clever idea. Hats off! My trailer is currently winterized but I will try that in a week or two when we plan to take it out for a few days.

I also don't plan on de-winterizing until we hit warmer weather.

We do this all the time, using those 5 gallon collapsible water jugs that are available all over the place. They fit perfectly in the storage area where the winterizing line is. They serve as a backup if we DO run the main tank dry, since the 5 gallon containers are relatively easy to fill and move around. It also allows you to measure exactly how much water you're (e.g. showering ) using. ( We can do a pretty nice 2.5 gallon shower! )

I suppose in the winter you could just use that, and since it's mostly inside the camper, freezing would be less of an issue, especially if you have the spray foam stuff on the tanks and/or the heaters. Then just run some more RV antifreeze to re-winterize things. Done !
Works for us.
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Old 11-17-2018, 08:04 PM   #34
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Black tank dump pipe freezing

We have underbelly foam with heat pads on our 21. However my concern is the long black tank dump pipe. It is covered in foam, but I expect it will be the first thing to freeze. I have thought about cutting through the foam and wraping it with heat tape, or trying to install the dump valve at the exit of the black tank in the storage compartment under the bed, but both of these ideas would be a lot of work. At this time I put a gallon of pink antifreeze through the toilet right after dumping in the winter.

I would appreciate any ideas.
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Old 11-17-2018, 08:21 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richardr View Post
We have underbelly foam with heat pads on our 21. However my concern is the long black tank dump pipe. It is covered in foam, but I expect it will be the first thing to freeze. I have thought about cutting through the foam and wraping it with heat tape, or trying to install the dump valve at the exit of the black tank in the storage compartment under the bed, but both of these ideas would be a lot of work. At this time I put a gallon of pink antifreeze through the toilet right after dumping in the winter.

I would appreciate any ideas.
That sounds like a good solution to me. As an alternative you could move to warmer climes. Nah, that's a lot of work too.
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Old 11-17-2018, 08:32 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richardr View Post
We have underbelly foam with heat pads on our 21. However my concern is the long black tank dump pipe. It is covered in foam, but I expect it will be the first thing to freeze. I have thought about cutting through the foam and wraping it with heat tape, or trying to install the dump valve at the exit of the black tank in the storage compartment under the bed, but both of these ideas would be a lot of work. At this time I put a gallon of pink antifreeze through the toilet right after dumping in the winter.

I would appreciate any ideas.
I like the idea of a valve up near the tank in the heated space. Maybe a Barker Auto Drain so you only need to flip a switch and not actually physically get to the valve to dump. I think Oliver uses these.
https://www.barkermfg.com/auto-drains.html
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