Upgrading your battery system....

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by soultrek

The 12V battery that has been in my trailer since I bought it used is a Lifeline GPL31XT.

Lifeline GPL31XT
That's a big, serious AGM battery - definitely an upgrade by a previous owner. It seems very suitable to me, but it's also expensive, and I'm sure that's that main reason that it is not commonly chosen.

Lifeline AGM batteries have come up in this forum before, but perhaps only once in the context of an Escape owner using them:
Xantrex Charger Installation and Wiring Upgrades

[alanmalk]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

Karen, you need an instrument to calibrate your thermometers.

And don't forget to calibrate the calibration thermometer against a National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) calibrated thermometer.

Follow-up with a few micro-brews...


--
Alan

[thoer]

Originally Posted by alanmalk

Follow-up with a few micro-brews...


--
Alan

or even better some homebrews!

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by PGDriver

I was reading the online manual for the CTEK MUS 4.3 and it indicates that its for batteries 14 - 160AH when connecting the 6 volts the total would 262AH just wondering what effect this would have?

Doug

I would think that would be for the maximum each battery, not the combined total capacity. It certainly seems to work great for me, but I sure ain't no expert. Maybe a question for the techs at CTEK.

edit: I did just send this query to them, to know for certain.

[NJ Joe]

Originally Posted by soultrek

Curious: The 12V battery that has been in my trailer since I bought it used is a Lifeline GPL31XT. I think it has reached the 3/4 point of its warrantied life, and it seems to be wearing down kind-of like I am at a similar stage of life. In all of the battery discussions I have seen on this forum I don't recall this battery being mentioned. Based on its heavy weight and the cliche "you get what you pay for", this ought to be an uncontested winner. Is the price the reason I haven't noticed Lifeline mentioned, or are the Trojan and Interstate better performers as well as cheaper? Thanks for any wisdom…Glenn.

I have been getting about 8 years out of my lifeline batteries on the boat. Not sure how old your GPL31XT is but you may want to try an equalizing charge on it if you have not done so already. I think it is 15.5 volts for 8 hours.

[PGDriver]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

I would think that would be for the maximum each battery, not the combined total capacity. It certainly seems to work great for me, but I sure ain't no expert. Maybe a question for the techs at CTEK.

edit: I did just send this query to them, to know for certain.

Let me know what they say please Jim as I thought that being as the batteries are in series to achieve 12 volts total the AH would be combined also thus the charger seeing the dual 6 volt s as one 12 volt battery.

Cheers Doug

[Vermilye]

When in series, voltage adds, but amps stays the same. For example, a pair of 6V, 232 amp hour batteries connected in series provides 12V & 232 amp hours. (The opposite for parallel connections, i.e. voltage stays the same and amp hours adds.)

[Jim Bennett]

Yeah, what Jon said.
Nice knowing these knowledgeable folks, eh?

[Brian B-P]

The two 6V batteries in series do form one 12V battery - the charger has no idea (and doesn't care) that there is a gap in the middle of the sequence of cells. The amp-hour capacity is simply that of a single battery or single cell (the voltage adds up in series, not the capacity), so the CTEK MUS 4.3 looks big enough to me for Escape's normal dual-6V configuration.

[padlin]

It's only 4.3 amp, going to be at it a long time.

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by padlin

It's only 4.3 amp, going to be at it a long time.

That is not bad at all, besides I have all winter. When I put it on to equalize in the summer, I do it when it will be sitting for the week.

I actually was thinking it was bigger than I needed for the maintenance it provides.

[alanmalk]

Originally Posted by NJ Joe

I have been getting about 8 years out of my lifeline batteries on the boat. Not sure how old your GPL31XT is but you may want to try an equalizing charge on it if you have not done so already. I think it is 15.5 volts for 8 hours.

From the LIfeline Battery web site: "Description of RV / Recreational Vehicle Battery:
Deep Cycle Marine/RV Battery
The Lifeline GPL-31XT is a high performance, Mil-Spec, AGM battery, produced in the United States."

AGM batteries as a general rule don't need an equalization charge, it could even cause the battery to vent gas which is not recommended. Lifeline in particular has no mention of equalization in their charging instructions. Of course, in the interest of experimentation, if the choice is tossing the battery v.s. gaining some additional life, pull it out of the trailer and give it a shot. Could be worthwhile and perhaps a money saving endeavor.

--
Alan

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

... the CTEK MUS 4.3 looks big enough to me for Escape's normal dual-6V configuration.

Oops, sorry... capacities don't add in series, but the 6V battery (just one, or any number in series) used by Escape has a capacity of 232 amp-hours, as Doug already (approximately) said. This is well beyond the CTEK MUS 4.3 stated capacity.

The result of the low charge current limit (4.3 amps) means that the bulk charge stage will take longer (which is harmless and even beneficial by itself), but CTEK may also be concerned that at this battery size (232 Ah versus the 110 Ah normal charging rating) it will switch stages too early and never completely charge the battery. For maintenance, much lower current is needed, but CTEK is still saying that at this battery size (232 Ah versus the 160 Ah maintenance rating) it may not even maintain the battery condition.

[NJ Joe]

Originally Posted by alanmalk

From the LIfeline Battery web site: "Description of RV / Recreational Vehicle Battery:
Deep Cycle Marine/RV Battery
The Lifeline GPL-31XT is a high performance, Mil-Spec, AGM battery, produced in the United States."

AGM batteries as a general rule don't need an equalization charge, it could even cause the battery to vent gas which is not recommended. Lifeline in particular has no mention of equalization in their charging instructions. Of course, in the interest of experimentation, if the choice is tossing the battery v.s. gaining some additional life, pull it out of the trailer and give it a shot. Could be worthwhile and perhaps a money saving endeavor.

--
Alan

Lifeline is an exception to rule for not equalizing AGM batteries. It should not be done on a regular basis, only if you are having capacity problems. Lifeline Batteries - Marine & RV Deep Cycle Batteries

[alanmalk]

Originally Posted by NJ Joe

Lifeline is an exception to rule for not equalizing AGM batteries. It should not be done on a regular basis, only if you are having capacity problems. Lifeline Batteries - Marine & RV Deep Cycle Batteries

I stand corrected. Lifeline does indeed provide instructions for an "as needed" equalization charge.

Thanks,
Alan

[Bobbito]

Originally Posted by jamman

I agree - the ETI standard charger sounds like it is much closer to optimal for the Trojans than for the U Interstates.

I agree - a 12V Interstate U battery and 2 6V U Interstate batteries have the same charging requirements.

BUT the standard ETI 12V battery is not a U and does not charge the same. And the standard charger will not get U batteries fully charged quickly (if ever) and the U battery life will suffer some. Many people are obviously satisfied with this set up, even though it is not optimal.

I am using the the sub-optimal ETI standard solar controller. At some time I will probably replace it as I am not getting as much out of my panels and into the battery as possible. But for now that is acceptable to me.

I have no problem with anyone (including myself) who decides that a sub-optimal solution is OK for them - temporarily, permanently, or whatever. I do have a problem () if anyone says their solution is optimal when it is not.

In our Nash trailer we had 2 sets of Interstate U2200's over 12 years. The Northwood trailer used an Intelli-Power 9100 and we added a Charge Wizard to improve charging. Even with the Charge Wizard, the maximum output for desulfanation mode was 14.4 V. Seeing as the ETI charger is capable of putting out 14.4V, I am wondering if its mode's are close to those of the Charge Wizard. I couldn't see any information in the 2014 Escape Trailer Manual. Does anyone have information on the ETI charger? Here is a link to the Charge Wizard's specs.

Charge Wizard

We could live with the same performance as we had in the Nash, but if there is a way of putting even more juice in the battery or improving its life I am all ears! We almost never have a power hookup where we camp.

Oh and what is the rating of the ETI 6 volt deep cycles in amp hrs. The Interstate U2200 and its replacement, the GC2-XHD-S, capacity - 232 amp hrs.

Bob K

[PGDriver]

Hi Bob the twin 6 volt batteries Escape uses are the same 232 AH.

Cheers Doug

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

I actually was thinking it was bigger than I needed for the maintenance it provides.

CTEK says their 4.3 amp product is good for maintenance charging only up to 160 amp-hour capacity. Interstate's charging information page specifies a float charging voltage of 13.4V for the two-battery series bank, but doesn't indicate how much current is expected to flow at that voltage (for this 232 amp-hour case or any other size).

I suppose if the CTEK MUS 4.3 can maintain 13.4V on the batteries then it has sufficient output; I think CTEK is saying they don't think it can do that, or that it can't push enough equalization current. I'm interested to hear what they say.

[jamman]

Originally Posted by Bobbito

In our Nash trailer we had 2 sets of Interstate U2200's over 12 years. The Northwood trailer used an Intelli-Power 9100 and we added a Charge Wizard to improve charging. Even with the Charge Wizard, the maximum output for desulfanation mode was 14.4 V. Seeing as the ETI charger is capable of putting out 14.4V, I am wondering if its mode's are close to those of the Charge Wizard. I couldn't see any information in the 2014 Escape Trailer Manual. Does anyone have information on the ETI charger? Here is a link to the Charge Wizard's specs.
...
We could live with the same performance as we had in the Nash, but if there is a way of putting even more juice in the battery or improving its life I am all ears! We almost never have a power hookup where we camp.

'''

Bob K

Use the forum google search function - search dropdown menu, search site/google
Suggested search: replace converter

1) Read this entire thread.
2) http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f8...ades-1167.html

[Bobbito]

Originally Posted by PGDriver

Hi Bob the twin 6 volt batteries Escape uses are the same 232 AH.

Cheers Doug

Thanks Doug. I think we will just stick with the ETI batteries then and replace them with Interstates when they die down the road.

Originally Posted by jamman

Use the forum google search function - search dropdown menu, search site/google
Suggested search: replace converter

1) Read this entire thread.
2) http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f8...ades-1167.html

Oops, I certainly didn't read the thread carefully enough. My apologies. Thanks for the info on both the WFCO power unit and the Xantrex. The Intellipower link shows a graph of %charge vs Time at various voltages and the boost voltage of 14.4 takes around 4 hours. However, isn't this for a 12 volt battery. I assume that two 6 volt batteries take 8 hours (and it matches what I believe we used to experience when we charged our Nash). What concerns me is the maximum 4 hours of boost on the WFCO unit. It could mean a lot longer charging for us, and as we use a generator at the lake (Yes we use a generator when fishing. We charge the boat's electric batteries at the same time as the trailer, every few days. The noise from our Honda generator is more than offset by no outboard noise on the lake).

Though the Xantrex seems to be a better option, I don't have the bucks or the know-how to change over to it. We will have to live with whatever the WFCO gives us.
Thanks for the advice. I am blown away by the level of knowledge and skill on this forum.

Bob