Wiring Question. Adding an Inverter

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Greggo

My battery has tags on each connection that labels and numbers them. Done by the factory, figured they all shipped that way. Smart!

Thanks. I'll have a look at the labels on a dual-battery setup sometime.

[jennykatz]

I added a 1800 watt (continuous) from Northern tool pure sign inverter . basically i will not be using that much power its for the 700 watt microwave which pulls 1050 watts so the need for a 1800 watt inverter . It had 2 negative and 2 positive leads I ran a number 2 awg gauge wire less then 3ft for negative and about 5 ft for positive running through a 150 amp bussman circuit breaker.

what I did was go from the negative lead to the other negative lead on the inverter then to the battery -
Then went from positive lead to positive lead then to 150 amp breaker then to battery+
Every thing worked plugged in microwave and some fans and all worked .
I came out the next day and all my 12 volt side would not work I had blown the 40 amp battery fuse ??Also the GoPro reader for the solar was going crazy flashing and reading amps,volts ?
I bought a new fuse and took off inverter and all 12 volt side works . What is the problem ? I've done boats this way and they work fine no problems in 8 years .Could it be the solar system Where should I look for a problem ?

[padlin]

The day you tested the inverter, did the 12v stuff work when you were done?

From your description I don't see anything wrong. Wondering if you could have smoked it while you were working in the area but didn't notice it.


On a different subject, are you sure the #2 cable and 150A fuse are correct? That's what my 1000w inverter calls for.

[jennykatz]

yes the lights were on the fan was also on ? 1800 watts divided by 12 volts =150 amps . I think that is correct . Also the inverters instructions call for either a 2awg or 4awg in the instructions .My run is less then 3ft for - and 5 ft for + .Also i will never use the 1800 watts maybe 1000-1500 for microwave and wife's hairdryer (small one ) What got me worried was the Go-pro solar display was going nuts flashing and showing amps ,volts ? This is s Northern tool pure sign 2000 watt(1800 cont) inverter . I did buy 2 fuses so in case it happens again ?
Also I did not blow any other fuses on the coverter box just the 40 amp blade fuse to the dual 6 volt batteries . Yes i did hook up to the right + and - .
Any electricians with ideas?

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by padlin

The day you tested the inverter, did the 12v stuff work when you were done?

From your description I don't see anything wrong. Wondering if you could have smoked it while you were working in the area but didn't notice it.


On a different subject, are you sure the #2 cable and 150A fuse are correct? That's what my 1000w inverter calls for.

#2 AWG 75 deg copper wire is only rated for 115 amps in a conduit or cable with no more than 3 current carrying conductors
# 1/0 AWG 75 deg copper wire is rated for 150 amps in a conduit or cable with no more than 3 current carrying conductors.
#2 AWG 75 deg copper wire is rated for 170 amps in free air.

Most inspection authorities do not consider conductors run inside of enclosures as being in free air so the 115 amp rating for #2 AWG wire would apply in this situation
The # 2 wire would not cause the 40 amp fuse to blow.
The blown 40 amp fuse may not be related to the inverter if I am reading the post correctly.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by jennykatz

yes the lights were on the fan was also on ? 1800 watts divided by 12 volts =150 amps . I think that is correct . Also the inverters instructions call for either a 2awg or 4awg in the instructions .My run is less then 3ft for - and 5 ft for + .Also i will never use the 1800 watts maybe 1000-1500 for microwave and wife's hairdryer (small one)

This particular inverter needs two separate sets of 2 awg wires to the battery if operating over 1000W. Not sure why it is designed this way but twinning the two positive and negative connections on the inverter does not appear to be correct. You risk an issue if you operate in the range you mention with micro/hairdryer.

Also was the whole screen (all icons) flashing on the GoPower screen? The manual for the GP-PWM-30 indicates this is due to a detection of over-voltage (15.5V).

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

This particular inverter needs two separate sets of 2 awg wires to the battery if operating over 1000W. Not sure why it is designed this way but twinning the two positive and negative connections on the inverter does not appear to be correct. You risk an issue if you operate in the range you mention with micro/hairdryer.

Also was the whole screen (all icons) flashing on the GoPower screen? The manual for the GP-PWM-30 indicates this is due to a detection of over-voltage (15.5V).

Your right it does not appear to be correct but if the inverter is UL listed then it was tested and approved as designed and manufactered.
The NEC does not allow parallel conductors smaller than # 1/0 AWG plus the conductors must be the same AWG , same type of conductor (Copper or Aluminum ) , same insulation ratings , be of the same length and terminate at the same point.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by jennykatz

Every thing worked plugged in microwave and some fans and all worked .
I came out the next day and all my 12 volt side would not work I had blown the 40 amp battery fuse ??Also the GoPro reader for the solar was going crazy flashing and reading amps,volts ?
I bought a new fuse and took off inverter and all 12 volt side works . What is the problem ?

Originally Posted by jennykatz

...
Also I did not blow any other fuses on the coverter box just the 40 amp blade fuse to the dual 6 volt batteries .

Is this a 40-amp fuse in the wire from the battery positive terminal to the power centre (converter-charger and distribution panel)? Since the inverter doesn't use any power from this circuit, it can't blow that fuse by drawing excessive current.

Applying high enough voltage to the battery terminals could cause errors at the solar charge controller and blow the 40A fuse if enough DC loads were turned on at the time. I don't know how the inverter could apply DC voltage to the battery, short of a severe wiring error.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by jennykatz

I added a 1800 watt (continuous) from Northern tool pure sign inverter .

I assume that this is the NPower XRP Pure Sine Wave Power Inverter with Remote Control — 1800 Watts (Item# 31909). Right?

Originally Posted by jennykatz

It had 2 negative and 2 positive leads I ran a number 2 awg gauge wire less then 3ft for negative and about 5 ft for positive running through a 150 amp bussman circuit breaker.

what I did was go from the negative lead to the other negative lead on the inverter then to the battery -
Then went from positive lead to positive lead then to 150 amp breaker then to battery+

If I have the right model, the manual does not suggest doing that... so why do it? Unfortunately, the manual is not very helpful; although it shows the two sets of input terminals, the text doesn't even mention that there are two sets or provide any guidance regarding their use.

The "modified sine wave" model (NPower Portable Digital Inverter — 2000 Watts - Item# 4572002) does contain this warning:

If connected with loads of over 1500W, two sets of same size wirings must be
connected to the same one battery or the connected battery kit. And it may
damage the inverter if using one set of wiring only or connecting two sets of
wirings to different batteries separately!

This is the requirement already mentioned for over 1000 watts for the pure sine wave model, but it doesn't seem to actually appear in the manual. Even this statement doesn't suggest jumpering the two sets of input terminals together.

Without knowing how the inverter is wired internally (and the manual does not provide any documentation of the internals), there's no way to know if daisy-chaining the input connections this way is useful, or even advisable.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

This particular inverter needs two separate sets of 2 awg wires to the battery if operating over 1000W.

Originally Posted by steve dunham

The NEC does not allow parallel conductors smaller than # 1/0 AWG plus the conductors must be the same AWG , same type of conductor (Copper or Aluminum ) , same insulation ratings , be of the same length and terminate at the same point.

This duplication of input terminals is certainly strange, and they're located at opposite sides of the case. I wonder if they are not just extra terminals, but connections for two separate 1000 watt input power sections? That would mean they would not be connected to each other internally, and so would not violate the NEC's parallel conductor rules even if not wired identically.

It's hard to tell what's going on with this thing, especially since the manual doesn't even mention the existence of two sets of terminals.

Although the specifications in the manual says it has "25 A fuse ×10" - which to me suggests ten fuses rated at 25 amps each all wired in parallel. Unfortunately I don't see any indication in the manual of where these are located; the user is not expected to deal with the inverter's internal fuses, and is directed to get a "qualified service technician" to replace or even check fuses. If they're in two separate groups of five, each group associated with an input, that might support the two-input-sections idea. The thing could be essentially two 1000-watt inverters in one case, connected to common AC outputs.

[jennykatz]

Yes this is the N power 1800 watt with 2 leads in back . It might be 2 (1000 watt inverters tied together ) Thanks for all the replies .I might just take the daisy chain off and use one terminal for a 1000 watt inverter and see if that works .
I wonder if having the trailer plugged in and solar going did it go over the 15.5 volts for the Go-pro to act up ? was this some kind of fluke ? Hopefully will sort this out before camping season .

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

This duplication of input terminals is certainly strange, and they're located at opposite sides of the case. I wonder if they are not just extra terminals, but connections for two separate 1000 watt input power sections? That would mean they would not be connected to each other internally, and so would not violate the NEC's parallel conductor rules even if not wired identically.

It's hard to tell what's going on with this thing, especially since the manual doesn't even mention the existence of two sets of terminals.

One of the user questions that was answered by NPower on the Northern website provides some information (see pic). It seems kind of crazy that the correct wiring is not clearly shown or explained in the manual. There is also a chassis ground lug on the back of the unit that is not even mentioned in the manual either.

Originally Posted by jennykatz

I might just take the daisy chain off and use one terminal for a 1000 watt inverter and see if that works.

Good idea. Personally I would send this thing back and get the Xantrex SW2000 or something of equivalent quality (or at least instructions and likely technical support that I can trust) and make sure I have the appropriate wiring and fusing. If you only need 1000W anyway than maybe the Xantrex SW1000 would meet your needs and cost less. Not criticizing your choice, just want you to have a safe installation and a system you can depend on.