12V issues

[John in Santa Cruz]

Originally Posted by tdf-texas

There seems to be no end to the reasons I am glad I didn't get the foam.

actually, the foam starts just behind where the pigtail and breakaway switch enter the body.

[Oldtimer]

Agree tdf no foam on our 21 due in Sept n tks for pics on electrical seems once a sparky one just can’t keep yer hands off of it lol

[Jubal]

Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz

so where on a 21 is that junction box for the tow vehicle cable ? is that under the bed?

ok, I think found mine under the front of the bed, its totally different.



but, hmm, not sure I even see the brake line there. underside of my trailer is foam encapsulated, that kinda restricts access and visibility.

More one size fits all crimp butt connectors. Also appears to be a wire nut wrapped in electrical tape.

[Brian B-P]

I just skimmed through the thread again from this point and didn't see a response to this...

Originally Posted by Mark&Elaine

... I packed up to leave, unplugged the power cord and tried to raise the power jacks on my 5.0 TA. They didn’t move hitting the switch. On my trailer the fuse in the battery box is a 40 amp fuse. It was open. I plugged the power cord back in to shore power and was able to activate the jacks. What I did notice was that the panel that shows the tank and battery level showed the battery was 100% full when I pressed that button. This panel would only display when plugged into shore power. When unplugged the trailer was completely dead because of that open fuse. I’m confused how it could read 100% with the fuse open.

The "battery level" meter is a just voltmeter which is not connected directly to the battery. It connects on the power center side of the fuse in the battery box, so with that fuse blown it is reading the voltage put out by the converter when you are on shore power, just as the power jack works on power from the converter when the fuse is blown.

[Mark&Elaine]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

I just skimmed through the thread again from this point and didn't see a response to this...

The "battery level" meter is a just voltmeter which is not connected directly to the battery. It connects on the power center side of the fuse in the battery box, so with that fuse blown it is reading the voltage put out by the converter when you are on shore power, just as the power jack works on power from the converter when the fuse is blown.

Thanks Brian, that makes sense! I've been thinking of changing that 40 amp fuse to a 12v 40 amp manually resetable fuse. They make one for a marine application. Typically used for an electric trolling motor. Any problems with doing that? I'm still not sure why that fuse opened.... I called ETI and was told that probably the pigtail that plugs into the truck shorted to the frame. I coil it and tuck it up inside the fifthwheel pin box. Possible, but I don't see any burn marks on the plug or box.... .Still a mystery. Mark

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Mark&Elaine

I've been thinking of changing that 40 amp fuse to a 12v 40 amp manually resetable fuse. They make one for a marine application. Typically used for an electric trolling motor. Any problems with doing that?

I can't think of any issue, since the manual reset means that if there is a problem (such as a short or excessive load) you will be aware of it; auto-reset breakers can hide problems.

[steve dunham]

Auto reset breakers can often make a problem worse by causing additional damage

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by Mark&Elaine

Thanks Brian, that makes sense! I've been thinking of changing that 40 amp fuse to a 12v 40 amp manually resetable fuse. They make one for a marine application. Typically used for an electric trolling motor. Any problems with doing that? I'm still not sure why that fuse opened.... I called ETI and was told that probably the pigtail that plugs into the truck shorted to the frame. I coil it and tuck it up inside the fifthwheel pin box. Possible, but I don't see any burn marks on the plug or box.... .Still a mystery. Mark

Since the wire to the 7 pin is connected to the downstream side of the 40 amp fuse, there are several reasons it could blow.

- You started the tow vehicle with the 7 pin connected. The TV starter would pull current from the trailer battery through the 7 pin.
- The 7 pin connector was wet and shorted or the 7 pin connector touched ground - the small arc that it would take to blow a 40 amp fuse would not leave a mark.
- The trailer battery charge was low and you connected to shore power. The converter can put out up to 55 amps.

[Captm]

We have decided to move from a truck camper to a trailer. Escape has been our choice since meeting a very nice couple in GNP two years ago that had a 5.0. I follow this website regularly to glean what I can prior to making a trip to the factory, which would result in placing an order. However, seeing the quality of electrical work that has been shown makes the purchase of an Escape a non-starter. Why spend hard earned money on a product which I will have to rewire? While some may say that only the connectors need to be replaced, I wonder if there is enough slack in the wire to properly accomplish this? How many crimplock and/or butt-splices are there in areas that are not seen?
Cheer!

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by Captm

We have decided to move from a truck camper to a trailer. Escape has been our choice since meeting a very nice couple in GNP two years ago that had a 5.0. I follow this website regularly to glean what I can prior to making a trip to the factory, which would result in placing an order. However, seeing the quality of electrical work that has been shown makes the purchase of an Escape a non-starter. Why spend hard earned money on a product which I will have to rewire? While some may say that only the connectors need to be replaced, I wonder if there is enough slack in the wire to properly accomplish this? How many crimplock and/or butt-splices are there in areas that are not seen?
Cheer!

I like that you listen to a few people complain, but disregard the multitude that is very pleased with their trailer. All the best of luck finding something built better.

BTW, I am not denying that these terminations could be done better.

[Dave Walter]

Originally Posted by Captm

We have decided to move from a truck camper to a trailer. Escape has been our choice since meeting a very nice couple in GNP two years ago that had a 5.0. I follow this website regularly to glean what I can prior to making a trip to the factory, which would result in placing an order. However, seeing the quality of electrical work that has been shown makes the purchase of an Escape a non-starter. Why spend hard earned money on a product which I will have to rewire? While some may say that only the connectors need to be replaced, I wonder if there is enough slack in the wire to properly accomplish this? How many crimplock and/or butt-splices are there in areas that are not seen?
Cheer!

Why not make that trip to the factory and see the Escapes for yourself, maybe talk to the people that actually build them, and then make your decision. As other much more respectable people than myself have commented, you should not rely on the opinions of a handful of malcontents over a stadium full of satisfied owners.

[Greg A]

Kinda throwing the baby out with the bath water kind a thing.

I wouldn't classify Tdf as a complainer though, I find him to be extremely knowledgeable, does very good electrical work, and discovered legitimate issues with his wiring. I haven't checked my junction box yet, but I will thanks to him and hope it is just a one-off deal since not many have reported similar findings as of yet. The rest of my 19 wiring that I've checked over the course of the last 2.5 years has seemed very solid so I'm not concerned at all about the wiring being satisfactory in Escapes.

My experience with rebuilding multiple Scamps and stickies however, makes the wiring I have in the 19 Escape to be at the very top-end of that group so I wouldn't use this thread as the reason to not purchase a trailer. Captm should rethink it a bit and ask some more questions and do a bit more research on what's out there and all the issues encountered with different brands.

This is my second Escape and I would buy it again many times over based on my experience with what is out there.

[Iowa Dave]

Reminds me of the rock and roll singer Ral Donner and his big hit
You don’t know what you’ve got until you lose it.
Escape gives you all their love and you refuse it , or something like that.
Iowa “ pop a top, again” Dave

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by Greg A

I wouldn't classify Tdf as a complainer though, I find him to be extremely knowledgeable, does very good electrical work, and discovered legitimate issues with his wiring

Agreed, some of the terminology used might be not the most accurate. I have definitely learned a bunch of things from Tom since he came onto the forum. And learning is the main reason to be here, either as the student or as the teacher. I do like that there are one heck of a lot of friendly folks here too.

[NCBill]

1. If you want a fifth wheel egg your choices are extremely limited: Scamp or Escape.

2. Have a conversation with Escape.

3. Any new trailer, any brand, inspect it before you accept it.

4. Good luck finding perfection. Read he recent article in Wall Street Journal on the big RV companies in Elkhart, IN. It will scare the crap out of you. Companies there are desperate for employees. They have stopped drug testing as no one can pass, they get production line help from the local prison. Annual stay bonuses are now monthly stay bonuses as no one lasts one year. At least Escape, Scamp, Casita, Snoozy, Oliver, and others are not in Elkhart.

[padlin]

A bad fuse morphed into lost customers, amazing.

[MikeS]

Originally Posted by Captm

We have decided to move from a truck camper to a trailer. Escape has been our choice since meeting a very nice couple in GNP two years ago that had a 5.0. I follow this website regularly to glean what I can prior to making a trip to the factory, which would result in placing an order. However, seeing the quality of electrical work that has been shown makes the purchase of an Escape a non-starter. Why spend hard earned money on a product which I will have to rewire? While some may say that only the connectors need to be replaced, I wonder if there is enough slack in the wire to properly accomplish this? How many crimplock and/or butt-splices are there in areas that are not seen?
Cheer!

Originally Posted by Dave Walter

Why not make that trip to the factory and see the Escapes for yourself, maybe talk to the people that actually build them, and then make your decision. As other much more respectable people than myself have commented, you should not rely on the opinions of a handful of malcontents over a stadium full of satisfied owners.

With my limited number of posts here which are often critical, I suppose I'm also viewed as a complainer, possibly deserved. I looked hard at Casita (not for very long), Oliver and Airstream along with the normal stick built stuff before committing to a new Escape 5.0 TA. I saw a lot of things I did not like, more with some manufacturers than others. If you read the Airstream forums you will see that for $80,000 - $120,000 US or more you will find that as the owner you are the QA team and the janitor to clean up after the factory. If the floor plans in Casita work for you, I think they are a reasonable alternative and you could do much worse. If the dual shell of Oliver works for you with the floor plan and added weight, they are certainly an option and again you could do much worse. None of them are perfect and some of the electrical work I've seen on this forum is disappointing and scary. The thing that is the same across all manufacturers is there will always be a problem. More important than the problem is how it is handled and resolved. I would say from reading this forum the vast majority of owners are at least mostly satisfied with many being down right ecstatic with the support they receive from ETI.

And I didn't even mention the customization available on the Escape.

Also, I have an update on the electrical, I will share in another post so it does not get missed...

[MikeS]

As part of build sheet completion process, I asked ETI specifically about this thread before the final signature. (While many on the forum, when told that Reace had been notified felt that was good enough for them, which also speaks to their previous experience, I wasn't ready to make the assumption. ) The response I received from ETI was reassuring to me. I was assured that Reace/ETI are "all over this" and the issues are being addressed.

I guess we will know soon enough if they were addressed as new owners share their findings, but that answer was good enough for me to sign off on the build sheet.

Personally I find these threads are extremely helpful for everyone involved. Current owners learn something about their trailer and something they may want to address, ETI is offered opportunities to improve and often takes us up on them, and future owners get a better product.

I'm off my soap box.

[steve dunham]

Originally Posted by NCBill

1. If you want a fifth wheel egg your choices are extremely limited: Scamp or Escape.

2. Have a conversation with Escape.

3. Any new trailer, any brand, inspect it before you accept it.

4. Good luck finding perfection. Read he recent article in Wall Street Journal on the big RV companies in Elkhart, IN. It will scare the crap out of you. Companies there are desperate for employees. They have stopped drug testing as no one can pass, they get production line help from the local prison. Annual stay bonuses are now monthly stay bonuses as no one lasts one year. At least Escape, Scamp, Casita, Snoozy, Oliver, and others are not in Elkhart.

Beyond cosmetic items how does someone with little or no knowledge of electrical , plumbing , propane ,welding etc etc etc make an intelligent inspection / judgement .
If the workmanship in areas that are visible is poor ,one can probably safely assume that the work you can’t see is as bad or worse
What they do in Elkhart should not be the bar for others to hide behind and the fact that are only 2 manufactures of FG 5th wheelers doesn’t mean you have to reluctantly accept what’s there and SHUT your mouth

Note : Our local Union (2100 Members ) had mandatory random drug testing for all members . Once a year and every year every member was forced to take a random drug test
After 5 years of testing at a cost of $1,500,000 they stopped
The reason was only 7 people tested positive and 4 of them were for pot
To infer that everyone working in Elkhart Indiana is a drug addled idiot is just plain false

I agree none of these trailers are perfect but from what they cost you would be led to believe they are !

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

....and the fact that are only 2 manufactures of FG 5th wheelers doesn’t mean you have to reluctantly accept what’s there and SHUT your mouth

And, just who said or even suggested this? It was just an observation as I saw it. Many of us who are very pleased with our trailers know that they are not perfect, though they still remain the best option for our needs.

Folks here already realize your disdain for Escape trailers, and the fact you would not buy one believing them to be overpriced and lacking in quality, but why make things worse for others looking to learn? Most of the rest of us are here to help.