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Old 06-12-2018, 10:50 PM   #101
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Mine looks better, I will redo the #14 wires if I proceed as they are in #10 connectors but they will work. I have 10 AWG from the 7 pin + power to the converter. I will redo that to 8 AWG when I redo the other connectors. The rewiring for brake and 7 pin + power would not really be that difficult. Use the existing wire up to the converter as the charging circuit from the vehicle. I'd fuse it while you are at it. Run another wire from the plus side of the battery through another small hole in the storage box and attach it to the + power pole. Leave that one unfused. Now you have a direct wired breakaway switch and a separate fused charging circuit. If the battery fuse blows the breakaway will still be active.
I like your idea! I have the 8 gauge for the charging circuit - all I would have to add is a 12 gauge run from the breakout box back to the battery for the emergency brakes and add a fuse to the 8 gauge.

Now where did I leave that roll of blue 12 gauge?
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Old 06-13-2018, 05:52 AM   #102
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What about a better crimper, is there something better than those plier type for squeezing, I'm losing strength in my hands as I age and those soft metal ring plugs look hefty.
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Old 06-13-2018, 06:29 AM   #103
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What about a better crimper, is there something better than those plier type for squeezing, I'm losing strength in my hands as I age and those soft metal ring plugs look hefty.
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Old 06-13-2018, 07:08 AM   #104
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What about a better crimper, is there something better than those plier type for squeezing, I'm losing strength in my hands as I age and those soft metal ring plugs look hefty.
I use a hydraulic crimper for the 10 gauge and up.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

For the smaller gauges, I use a Klein 1005 crimper.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Klein-To...5SEN/100352095
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Old 06-13-2018, 07:32 AM   #105
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Do a search for heavy duty crimpers, HD carries them. They have longer handles for more torque.
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Old 06-13-2018, 07:37 AM   #106
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These are nice and hefty, but when working inside the trailer in a confined space I find some tools not to be too wieldy.
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Old 06-13-2018, 08:01 AM   #107
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Besides, Fred asked me to look into the battery wiring. It's all his fault!


Hee Hee!
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Old 06-13-2018, 08:04 AM   #108
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For the smaller gauges, I use a Klein 1005 crimper.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Klein-To...5SEN/100352095
I have owned a couple pair of these for 35 years now. When in the power industry I used them thousands of times wiring in various control panels and equipment. All my electrical hand tools are Klein, and I have two sets of everything. Klein tools go missing before they get lost. Other than touching up the edge of a straight blade, mine seem to want to last forever, though they get less use now in the renovation world.
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Old 06-13-2018, 01:01 PM   #109
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Mine looks better, I will redo the #14 wires if I proceed as they are in #10 connectors but they will work. I have 10 AWG from the 7 pin + power to the converter. I will redo that to 8 AWG when I redo the other connectors. The rewiring for brake and 7 pin + power would not really be that difficult. Use the existing wire up to the converter as the charging circuit from the vehicle. I'd fuse it while you are at it. Run another wire from the plus side of the battery through another small hole in the storage box and attach it to the + power pole. Leave that one unfused. Now you have a direct wired breakaway switch and a separate fused charging circuit. If the battery fuse blows the breakaway will still be active.
Here's an updated drawing per our discussion:
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Old 06-14-2018, 06:38 PM   #110
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Well, the wiring is finished with the exception of running a new emergency brake wire from the battery cutoff switch to the breakout box at the front of the trailer. That one is going to take a lot of taking apart to get the wire routed!

Here are pics of the finished product. The DC and AC wiring has been separated using nylon cable clamps. The wiring was done per the drawing in the previous post.
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Old 06-14-2018, 07:11 PM   #111
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So you do not just have thin vinyl coated plywood with a light frame of 1x2's in your bench area? If I'm seeing it right it looks like you have thicker plywood with the vinylply in front of it.
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Old 06-14-2018, 07:40 PM   #112
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So you do not just have thin vinyl coated plywood with a light frame of 1x2's in your bench area? If I'm seeing it right it looks like you have thicker plywood with the vinylply in front of it.
Table saw, titebond II, biscuit joiner, and a supply of plywood fixes that problem. By the way, thanks for the help with defining the schematic for the battery circuit.

I'll start running the blue 10 AWG for the emergency brake circuit as soon as it quits raining. The bed will have to come apart again - oh well, I was planning on gluing the carpet to the plywood and this would be a good time to do both. All the wiring under the bed is in wire loom so I can't just loop it through there.
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Old 06-14-2018, 08:10 PM   #113
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Table saw, titebond II, biscuit joiner, and a supply of plywood fixes that problem. By the way, thanks for the help with defining the schematic for the battery circuit.

I'll start running the blue 10 AWG for the emergency brake circuit as soon as it quits raining. The bed will have to come apart again - oh well, I was planning on gluing the carpet to the plywood and this would be a good time to do both. All the wiring under the bed is in wire loom so I can't just loop it through there.

I bet the mattress comes out of the 21 with less cussing.
I fixed some of my wiring, I had a flaky upper rear light so I redid the connections for the rear tail lights and at least there all the scotch locks are gone. Still plenty more in the trailer. When it gets cooler I'd like to redo the rear wire harness too.
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Old 06-14-2018, 08:24 PM   #114
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I bet the mattress comes out of the 21 with less cussing.
I fixed some of my wiring, I had a flaky upper rear light so I redid the connections for the rear tail lights and at least there all the scotch locks are gone. Still plenty more in the trailer. When it gets cooler I'd like to redo the rear wire harness too.
Yep, I just slide the mattress down to the other end of the trailer!
Like you, I have been getting rid of the scotch locks when I find them - I think I have most of them by now. A good twist together of the wires, solder, and heat shrink fixes them right up!
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Old 06-14-2018, 08:45 PM   #115
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"Yes but you forget most modern charging systems monitor the battery and reduce output reducing engine load to save fuel when they can. The remote battery is not fully in the picture so it will not get a full charge unless you want to spend some serious money on a fancy active system like this..."


Actually, the voltage supplied by our Tacoma would do negligible charging after the engine warms up a bit. Once voltage settles, which happens within 10 minutes or less, it is at about 13.6-13.8 or so, which would, to perhaps understate the problem, take a lot more hours to charge deep cycle 6 volters than I am willing to drive in a day. Because the voltage at the alternator is already too low, bigger wire cannot solve the problem no matter how big it is.

My solution will be to install a battery to battery charger that will step up the voltage from the tug to a proper charge level even given the low alternator voltage and the voltage drop to the trailer. I will post results once I have tested the system after we pick the trailer up in July.
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Old 06-14-2018, 08:59 PM   #116
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"Yes but you forget most modern charging systems monitor the battery and reduce output reducing engine load to save fuel when they can. The remote battery is not fully in the picture so it will not get a full charge unless you want to spend some serious money on a fancy active system like this..."


Actually, the voltage supplied by our Tacoma (I have a Scangauge to monitor this) would do negligible charging after the engine warms up a bit. Once voltage settles, which happens within 10 minutes or less, it is at about 13.6-13.8 or so, which would just supply a float charge even if there was no voltage drop to the trailer battery. At this voltage, a deeply discharged deep cycle battery would, to perhaps understate the problem, take a lot more hours to charge than I am willing to drive in a day.

So, I will be installing a battery to battery charger that will step the voltage up to a proper charge level even given the low alternator voltage and the voltage drop to the trailer. The charger will be fed through its own heavy gauge wire, not through the 7 pin circuit. I will post results once I have tested the system after we pick the trailer up in July.
I'm amazed how well the solar panels on the roof of the trailer charges while driving down the road. But your right about trying to charge the trailer battery with the TV - it just takes too long! The new Escapes have a 8 AWG going between the 7 pin and the battery - you can put a few amps down that.
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Old 06-14-2018, 09:08 PM   #117
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Actually, the voltage supplied by our Tacoma (I have a Scangauge to monitor this) would do negligible charging after the engine warms up a bit. Once voltage settles, which happens within 10 minutes or less, it is at about 13.6-13.8 or so, which would just supply a float charge even if there was no voltage drop to the trailer battery. At this voltage, a deeply discharged deep cycle battery would, to perhaps understate the problem, take a lot more hours to charge than I am willing to drive in a day.


So, I will be installing a battery to battery charger that will step the voltage up to a proper charge level even given the low alternator voltage and the voltage drop to the trailer. The charger will be fed through its own heavy gauge wire, not through the 7 pin circuit. I will post results once I have tested the system after we pick the trailer up in July.

From the 7 pin back to the battery in the trailer you should have 8 AWG wire . Mines doesn't I have 10 AWG in the breakout box to the converter but I suspect that is not normal. ( or may be in the 19s since the run to the converter is shorter)

Run 6 AWG from the truck battery to your DC to DC charger and back to the rear and replace the Toyota 7 pin socket with one that allows a larger 12v + wire and you would be set.

EDIT or tie the two batteries together with 1/0 cable.

I referred to what you noticed in another post, doing that lowers load on the engine and saves fuel. Makes trying to charge a trailer battery a no go is the only problem.
The Australians have some nice chargers that would be perfect for this.
https://redarcelectronics.com/collec...ttery-chargers


Here is a page of theirs that explains the smart alternators.
https://redarcelectronics.com/pages/faqs
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Old 06-14-2018, 09:37 PM   #118
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you want an isolation relay to disconnect the trailer plug when the truck is shut off.

btw; the Toyota alternator doesn't drop the voltage to the 13.x V until the charge current drops to near zero. as long as the half dead trailer battery is sucking up amps, the truck should continue to output the higher voltage.
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Old 06-14-2018, 09:47 PM   #119
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you want an isolation relay to disconnect the trailer plug when the truck is shut off.

btw; the Toyota alternator doesn't drop the voltage to the 13.x V until the charge current drops to near zero. as long as the half dead trailer battery is sucking up amps, the truck should continue to output the higher voltage.

Thanks for the reply. The relay is already there, it currently deals with our camper battery charger.


I didn't know that the alternator controller on the Tacoma was amperage controlled - that might prove nice in feeding the battery to battery charger with better voltage than the float voltage that I see now. However, unless I have missed something, I believe that the alternator controller went to float voltage in spite of the fact that our camper batteries were being charged by the existing battery to battery controller we use for the camper. I don't have an amp meter on the camper system, so I can't confirm with certainty that the amps were near zero, but I would be very surprised if that were the case. I will have a good battery monitor on the new trailer, so it will be interesting to see how the system behaves.
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Old 06-14-2018, 09:56 PM   #120
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Run 6 AWG from the truck battery to your DC to DC charger and back to the rear and replace the Toyota 7 pin socket with one that allows a larger 12v + wire and you would be set.

The Australians have some nice chargers that would be perfect for this.
https://redarcelectronics.com/collec...ttery-chargers
Thanks for the reply. It would be nice to run the charge wire through the 7 pin, so I will be checking that option before using a separate plug. I will need to make sure that the fuse/relay installed on the trailer circuit is up to the task - considering the miniscule current likely carried by the standard wiring, they might not be up to the 50 or so amps involved.



I already have my charger, one built by Sterling. I own two of their chargers, one on a boat, and the other now doing duty on our camper. No problems with either, so I went with another one for the trailer setup. The company actually answers their phone too, I mean how unusual is that?
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