2017 2nd gen. 5.0 T/A built with 3" frame not 4" - Escape Trailer Owners Community

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Old 04-02-2018, 05:39 PM   #1
Tin
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2017 2nd gen. 5.0 T/A built with 3" frame not 4"

Hi all,
I must admit I am a little perplex, this whole time I thought the 5.0 T/A's where built with 4"x2" tube steel as discussed on many post relating to the 3" frame recall "The 21 and 5.0 T/A our built on 4"x 2" frame". There is a on going post discussing the failure of a 3" frame on a 19 with though bolts, so last night I went out to verify my frame and bolting just to find out the main frame from Pin Box to Rear Bumper is 3"x2"x 1/8" thick tube steel. Did I miss a post discussing this change? Where the 1st gen 21 and 5.0T/A's built on 4"x 2" frames ? are 2nd gen 21 built on 4" or 3" frames? just a little confused.
Tin.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 01-HITCH AREA.jpg (103.5 KB, 56 views)
File Type: jpg 02-UNDER LOFT.jpg (94.8 KB, 43 views)
File Type: jpg 03-UNDER LOFT HATCH.jpg (83.4 KB, 41 views)
File Type: jpg 04-UNDER-FRONT.jpg (106.6 KB, 43 views)
File Type: jpg 05-UNDER-REAR.jpg (117.9 KB, 51 views)
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Old 04-02-2018, 05:52 PM   #2
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in the brochure on the web site Escape !!!!!The frames are constructed with 4” box steel!!!!

i dont understand too.
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Old 04-02-2018, 06:12 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fournier View Post
in the brochure on the web site Escape !!!!!The frames are constructed with 4” box steel!!!!

i dont understand too.
Same I thought maybe I missed something.
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Old 04-02-2018, 06:31 PM   #4
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I posted this in the frame break thread, but this seems like a better place.

--------------------

All 5.0TAs use 3"x2" tube for the frame. Not sure how many attachment points are underneath the lower part of the shell, but the loft has eight 5/16" bolts anchoring it to the frame. I would bet given the design of the frame/shell layout and anchoring, this is one stiff setup. With the 19, there is WAY more flexure on the frame out to the tongue, especially with the 3" frame.

edit to add - Along with other components, it is a good idea to check the tightness of these mounting bolts. I plan to do mine when it warms up here. Probably not necessary every year (maybe other than the first), but something to think about periodically.
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Old 04-02-2018, 06:56 PM   #5
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I’m going to be talking to ETI about this issue while I’m up there this Friday
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Old 04-02-2018, 06:57 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
I’m going to be talking to ETI about this issue while I’m up there this Friday
I would be they would be hesitant to say too much.
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Old 04-02-2018, 07:14 PM   #7
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We shall see
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Old 04-02-2018, 07:42 PM   #8
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Our 2017 21' has 4" tubing from the tongue all the way back to just behind the rear wheels (so coupler and both axles are attached to 4" tubing) along with welded pieces of angle iron for bolting cabin to frame. Just behind the rear wheels, a 3" piece is welded to the top of the 4" piece (where the dinette floor rises on the inside), and it's 3" tubing from there back to the rear bumper with bolts through the tubing (no angle iron) to attach the cabin in the rear part of the frame. So design wise, it seems like there is 4" tubing and angle iron for bolts where strength is needed (tongue to axles) and bolted-through 3" tubing for general support of the cabin after that. I can try to take photos if that doesn't make sense.
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Old 04-02-2018, 07:43 PM   #9
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Well, I'm surprised. At the time of the frame recall, it was made clear that the forward part of the frame had been switched to 4" tall on the 17' and 19' models. From the frame recall announcement thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by reace View Post
For most of 2014, the 19' trailers were built with a 4" frame and about mid year the 15' and 17' trailers were also changed to a 4" frame. We have included all of the 2014 owners in this recall just to make sure we don't miss anyone.
The 21' was not included in this recall, the general understanding being that the frame was already 4" tall on the larger models (again in the main forward portion only). The fifth-wheels were not included - whatever the size of box section used - because this was an issue with the joint between the main frame rails and the tongue, which is entirely different in the fifth-wheels.

Putting aside the structural differences between fifth-wheel and conventional models for a moment, it would make no sense to use 4" tall box section for the 15', 17', and 19' models, but only 3" tall box section for the 21' model.

I'm pretty sure that I even measured 4" tall main rails in the 21' the last time I looked at display models, before the 2016 body style change. I have photos of the rear underside of two trailers from 2014 Apr 21; the 5.0TA was not built yet and these two are both tandems with some different details so they must be a 19' and a 21'. In these trailers, the main rails are twice as tall as they are wide so if they are only 3" tall they must be only 1.5" wide (which is the original Escape 17' frame size), but the main rails are wider than the rear rails (for the raised section)... it certainly appears that those main rails are 2"x4".
(From the same visit, I have a similar photo of a 17' with 1.5"x3" frame, both rear and main sections).

Now, moving on to the 5.0TA... this model is based on the rear body of the 21' (in both the first and second generations of body). The distance from axles to hitch is almost as long as the 21', and the centre of mass is further forward, so bending stress on the main frame rails near the front will be at least as high as the 21'. I don't see any rational reason to use smaller tubing in the main frame of the 5.0TA than in the corresponding part of the 21', but perhaps I've missed something (other than the effect of body stiffness as Jim mentioned).

I wouldn't be so concerned about the 2"x3" box in the section of the 5.0TA frame which goes up and over the truck, because the closer you are from the point of support the lower the bending stress.
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Old 04-02-2018, 07:53 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bennett View Post
All 5.0TAs use 3"x2" tube for the frame.
Are you sure about that, Jim? I mean, do you specifically know about each variant of the 5.0TA? Yours and Tin's have 3" tall tubing (and apparently 2" wide, unlike earlier 3" tall sections), but this is the third variant of the 5.0TA:
  1. 2014-2015: classic body, beam axle and leaf springs
  2. 2016: classic body, Torflex
  3. 2017: new body, Torflex
The change in suspension required some detail changes in the frame (as little as just the mounting brackets), and the change in body required in increase in the width between the frame rails of about four inches (perhaps changing only the crossmembers). There could have as many as three variants of the frame, with dimensional changes possible between any of them.
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