A couple of ideas for the 2017 5.1 5th....

[PGDriver]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

I notice some 5th wheel set ups are "sliders" for front to rear movement, is this something that is necessary for use or only used with different trailers? Perhaps some parking spots maybe easier to enter with the hitch moved back for tighter turns and towing with the hitch forward over the axle? Does anyone use a slider model?

Hi Jim

I have a Reese 16K slider. Have only used it in the back/rear position a few times but when I did it was nice to have. You have to be cutting it pretty sharp to use the slider in the back position. All told I love this hitch and if I need extra weight in the back of the truck in winter I can leave it in.

Cheers
Doug

[cpaharley2008]

Is the standard Escape 5.0 TA hitch install a slider, anyone?

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by LeonW

Carl, just wanted to mention we have never had any sway with either our 17 or the 21 we currently own. It could be due to the weight distribution hitches, or maybe the excellent design of the Escape trailers, or maybe the owner's expert loading method. Or it could be due to dumb luck. I am sure there are some advantages to 5th wheel hitches -- you probably never get grease on your pants from the hitch ball. But not sure sway elimination is one of them.

Never had any sway with our 19 with no weight or sway attachments . Just the ball . Our truck is F250 with a 8 ft bed though . Big rigs past us and she just stays straight and follows . Pat

[AK snowbiker]

Old Skool here, aka AKsnowbiker. I like classic rock and the classic 5.0 TA.

I would only consider a slider if my bed length was shorter than 6.5'. Scott

Scott and Lori
I like bikes!

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by Old Skool

Old Skool here, aka AKsnowbiker. I like classic rock and the classic 5.0 TA.

I would only consider a slider if my bed length was shorter than 6.5'. Scott

Scott and Lori
I like bikes!

Why are you trying to confuse us?

But I agree, I can't see the need for a slider with a 6.5' bed either. I guess maybe with a 5.5' bed. I think they are mostly intended for the behemoth 5'ers. But then, I have never towed a fifth wheel RV before, only tractor/trailer combos.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

I notice some 5th wheel set ups are "sliders" for front to rear movement, is this something that is necessary for use or only used with different trailers? Perhaps some parking spots maybe easier to enter with the hitch moved back for tighter turns and towing with the hitch forward over the axle? Does anyone use a slider model?

The slider exists only to change the distance from cab to pin, and you would only need that if you can't find one pin position which works under all conditions. The pin needs to be far enough back to allow clearance to the cab in turns, but far enough forward that the weight of the trailer is carried where the truck can handle it.

At least a couple of Escape owners have had sliders, but at least one has mentioned not using it (that is, leaving it in the forward position).

Just to make things a little more confusing (or interesting, for those of us interested in mechanical designs) sliders come in two versions:

1. manual - the driver decides when to stop and adjust the slider position (in rare cases with a powered slide); this is often an add-on part sandwiched between the hitch frame and mounting hardware
2. automatic - the hitch is designed so that it moves back when the truck and trailer combination turns sharply enough (the best-known is the Pullrite SuperGlide)

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

Is the standard Escape 5.0 TA hitch install a slider, anyone?

No.

Originally Posted by Old Skool

I would only consider a slider if my bed length was shorter than 6.5'.

Although the box length doesn't matter directly, it is an indication of the distance from the back of the cab to the axle, which is the critical dimension. A typical 6.5' (2 m) box has about 40" (1 m) from cab to axle, which means that if the trailer is over 80" (2 m) wide you can't turn a full 90 degrees unless the pin is behind the axle, but even with a typical pin position just ahead of the axle the rig may still be able to turn tightly enough; turning clearance and pin position is always a tradeoff.

A wider trailer needs more space, obviously. Some of the recommendations on towing equipment websites are clearly based on the assumption that the trailer is at least 8 feet (96", 2.4 m) and up to the legal maximum (102", 2.6 m) wide. A 5.0TA is 88" (7'4", 2.2 m) wide, and a 5.0 only 80" (6'8', 2.0 m) wide.

Most people seem to find that tradeoff acceptable with a 6.5' box, and many even find it acceptable with a 5.5' box... without resorting to a slider. I'm sure I wouldn't be satisfied with the turning angle available for a 5.0TA with the standard pin position (just ahead of the axle) in a 5.5' box. I think that the Scott and Jim have expressed the common opinion: a slider is not needed with a 6.5' or longer box.

[AK snowbiker]

Just going off personal experience here. I drove myself to distraction with the slider, no slider hitch decision prior to picking up our trailer. We have the BW Patriot 16K mounted just in front of the axle.

We have pulled our trailer up and down some pretty steep, twisty old mining roads. A couple of times we have come very close to having the trailer and cab come into contact. (This is almost 90 degree backing on severe slope) but unless going past 90 degrees no problems what so ever.

I don’t see how folks with shorter beds and non-sliders get away with it, unless they are mounting the hitches behind the axles. Scott

Scott and Lori
I LIKE BIKES!

[cpaharley2008]

I just measured my truck bed, height is 22", bed is 6'5" lip to lip and the distance to axle center is 39-40" from the vehicle body, the bed is 6'5" wide. Escape lists the width to be 88", so midpoint would be 44" which is 4" too wide unless the body is more tapered than 2" from center axis.
I'm aware of at least one Ram 1500 towing the 5.0, but it was sold.

[phlbua]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

I just measured my truck bed, height is 22", bed is 6'5" lip to lip and the distance to axle center is 39-40" from the vehicle body, the bed is 6'5" wide. Escape lists the width to be 88", so midpoint would be 44" which is 4" too wide unless the body is more tapered than 2" from center axis.
I'm aware of at least one Ram 1500 towing the 5.0, but it was sold.

I had a 2014 Ram 1500 ecodiesel short bed (5'7") towing my 5.0TA that I picked up march 2015 from ETI. Trademasters installed the rails for a B&W patriot hitch but they positioned it slightly in front of the axle. Once, the front of the trailer hit the TV cab when I made a very sharp turn backing up. Caused a very slight dent on the TV.
I now traded the 1500 RAM to a 2500 ram diesel with the 6"5" bed. Using the same B&W hitch, I now have plenty of turning clearance.

[padlin]

Keep in mind the hitches front to rear adjustment. Also, 10 years now and I've yet to need
90 degrees of trailer angle.

[AK snowbiker]

Originally Posted by padlin

Keep in mind the hitches front to rear adjustment. Also, 10 years now and I've yet to need
90 degrees of trailer angle.

Bob, we do a lot of our camping, boondocking on forest service and mining roads, most are single lane. When you have to back up or make a turn it can be pretty tight and challenging. Plus my wife is all about the view at campsites. When we had our truck camper she once spotted me between two trees, about 3” off the front bumper and 6” off the back. So yes, I for one have been real close to 90 degrees once or twice. Scott

Scott and Lori
Bikes are FUN!

[cpaharley2008]

The hitch guy called with a price of $989 installed for a slider but needs to know what the height of the pin is, while level and the height of the trailer body above the pin to see if it will miss my side rails which are 53" high off the ground. Sent an email to ETI for further info.

[Scuba55]

Originally Posted by phlbua

I had a 2014 Ram 1500 ecodiesel short bed (5'7") towing my 5.0TA that I picked up march 2015 from ETI. Trademasters installed the rails for a B&W patriot hitch but they positioned it slightly in front of the axle. Once, the front of the trailer hit the TV cab when I made a very sharp turn backing up. Caused a very slight dent on the TV.
I now traded the 1500 RAM to a 2500 ram diesel with the 6"5" bed. Using the same B&W hitch, I now have plenty of turning clearance.

I am considering getting a RAM 2500, did you have to raise the trailer? I have the 6.5 bed, so clearance is not my issue. I simply want more power.

[cpaharley2008]

Why not improve your hemi with a chip and cold air intake....Bruce-BCNomad has had good success with that combo.

[AK snowbiker]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

The hitch guy called with a price of $989 installed for a slider but needs to know what the height of the pin is, while level and the height of the trailer body above the pin to see if it will miss my side rails which are 53" high off the ground. Sent an email to ETI for further info.

Jim, I thought you were thinking of the Andersen Ultimate? Can't you just turn that around for extra length? All I know, that be it diesel or gas any future truck that I own will have at least a 6.5' bed to tow my "old school classic". Scott

Scott and Lori
Bikes are FUN!

[Scuba55]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

Why not improve your hemi with a chip and cold air intake....Bruce-BCNomad has had good success with that combo.

That sounds interesting and much less expensive. I assume Bruce is on the forum?

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by Old Skool

Jim, I thought you were thinking of the Andersen Ultimate? Can't you just turn that around for extra length? All I know, that be it diesel or gas any future truck that I own will have at least a 6.5' bed to tow my "old school classic". Scott

Scott and Lori
Bikes are FUN!

I had to go up to the 3.5L instead of the 2.7L Ecodiesel in order to get the 6.5' bed. I have owned a pickup for 35 years now, and other than one Toyota Hilux, they all have had 8' boxes. 5.5' boxes seem so darn small to me, and I really don't like the look with a crew cab either.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

I just measured my truck bed, height is 22", bed is 6'5" lip to lip and the distance to axle center is 39-40" from the vehicle body, the bed is 6'5" wide. Escape lists the width to be 88", so midpoint would be 44" which is 4" too wide unless the body is more tapered than 2" from center axis.

Yes, it's too wide for a turn which places the trailer at 90 degrees to the truck - I don't think there is any significant taper to the trailer body.

If the body had square corners and the pin were at the front edge of the body, and the hitch placed the pin at the axle line, I calculate the angle before the trailer corner would hit the cab would be 62 degrees (the arctangent of 39/44). Fortunately, the front corners are rounded, and the pin is placed slightly ahead of the front of the body, both of which help the turning angle so the combination can actually turn more sharply than that.

I think this is a very common situation for Escape owners - most full-size and mid-size trucks have these proportions in length.

Originally Posted by phlbua

I had a 2014 Ram 1500 ecodiesel short bed (5'7") towing my 5.0TA that I picked up march 2015 from ETI. Trademasters installed the rails for a B&W patriot hitch but they positioned it slightly in front of the axle.

The rail position is determined by the mounting brackets. The brackets are designed to work with the frame (including mounting holes in the frame, bed support positions, etc) and usually place the rails centred on a position just ahead of the axle line. The installer normally has no choice in this position.

Originally Posted by padlin

Keep in mind the hitches front to rear adjustment.

The B&W Patriot is unusual in that it allows some fore-aft adjustment of the hitch head (and thus pin) position... but many (most?) don't have this adjustment. The rearmost setting of a Patriot (pn rails centred an inch or two ahead of the axle) would be slightly behind the axle centreline... which would still be very close for a 5.0TA (but more workable for the narrower 5.0).

Originally Posted by padlin

Also, 10 years now and I've yet to need 90 degrees of trailer angle.

True, that's the extreme. With trailers much longer than the truck a 90-degree angle is needed to get the tightest possible turn, but you should never need to go that far with a pickup and an Escape (the truck's combination of wheelbase and steering angle keep it from turning tightly enough to get the trailer to this angle).

[phlbua]

Originally Posted by Scuba55

I am considering getting a RAM 2500, did you have to raise the trailer? I have the 6.5 bed, so clearance is not my issue. I simply want more power.

The RAM 2500 is 5" higher than the 1500. I adjusted the kingpin box height 2.5" higher . This still provided about 6" clearance between the top of tv tailgate(closed) and the bottom of trailer while hitched. However. this change still does not level the trailer while towing but I'll stay with this setup for a while and observe.
Other options I'm considering to raise the trailer:
1. change tires from 205/75r15 (stock) to 225/75r15 which would allow a 1"+ height increase
2. Use the Correct Track wheel alignment kit that would raise the height to 2"
3. And of course 'flip the axle' but only if the first two options are not enough.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

The hitch guy called with a price of $989 installed for a slider...

That's a lot of money and weight for equipment. As others are suggesting, it seems like a slider is not needed with your 6.5' box, especially if you use one of the hitches which can be set back a few inches from the standard position.

Just curious... what brand/style of slider is your hitch guy offering?

Originally Posted by Old Skool

Jim, I thought you were thinking of the Andersen Ultimate? Can't you just turn that around for extra length?

The frame of the Andersen Ultimate positions the ball ahead of or behind the rail centre (or the ball in the bed floor in the case of the version that is anchored that way); yes, Andersen suggests mounting it with the ball to the rear in short-bed trucks.

You may be thinking of the other Jim (Bennett), who I believe has an Andersen Ultimate waiting for his 5.0TA.

Originally Posted by Scuba55

That sounds interesting and much less expensive. I assume Bruce is on the forum?

Yes: BCnomad

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

5.5' boxes seem so darn small to me, and I really don't like the look with a crew cab either.

When you're not towing, just put on a hard tonneau cover - then it looks like a reasonably proportioned sedan, and that's how most people use them anyway Could be worse - could be a Hummer H2 SUT.