Adding 12v outlet - are we missing something???

[FMLNM]

Originally Posted by Vermilye

You might try taking a test light & using it to check the receptacle. If it lights with the alligator clip on the outside of the receptacle and the point touching the button, the wiring is good, and you have a problem with the receptacle. If it doesn't light, I'd suspect a bad connection, either at the splice or the receptacle.

While unusual, it is possible to have a connection that passes enough current to make a volt meter work, but not a real load. Most volt meters have very high input impedances so a bad connection may still show voltage. The test light puts enough of a load on the connection to check for this kind of fault.

We'll give that a try and report back.

[FMLNM]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

Polarity was mentioned, but without a guide to the correct polarity. The contact down at the bottom in the centre for the plug's pin should be positive, with the shell or plates or collar in the socket around it being negative.

Yup - that's how we tested it. We even took the wiring off and wired it the opposite way just to be sure the whole trailer wasn't reversed by some weird coincidence and the voltmeter dropped in the opposite direction, so of course we returned to our original correct polarity. So I think we're ok on polarity.

[FMLNM]

Originally Posted by Jubal

What is the gauge of the wires you are splicing into ? Do not overlook a problem on the negative or battery positive wires. I do not know the amperage draw of the CPAP machine but this probably be a dedicated circuit.

The Escape wires are 14 gauge and so are the wires we are adding for the run to the receptacle. On the Walmart receptacle, the wires appeared to be 12 gauge. On the Marinco Sealink receptacle there is no wire, just terminals onto which to connect our 14 gauge wire.

As for needing a dedicated circuit, perhaps, but the CPAP draw on DC is 6.7 amps for one machine and 5amps for the other. We have replaced all our lights with LEDs and would not be running the CPAPs and the lights at the same time anyway.

[FMLNM]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

Unless ETI changed their set up, can you post a pic of the Winegard outlet?

Here you go...I have yet to find a 12v plug that will fit into this receptacle...I've tried at least a half dozen...it doesn't even seem that it is just the contacts sticking out the sides - the main body of the plug won't even fit in most cases. It looks perfectly normal but it is just too $#@ small!

[FMLNM]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

Unless ETI changed their set up, can you post a pic of the Winegard outlet?

Here you go...I have yet to find a 12v plug that will fit into this receptacle...I've tried at least a half dozen...it doesn't even seem that it is just the contacts sticking out the sides - the main body of the plug won't even fit in most cases. It looks perfectly normal but it is just too $#@ small! Note that in the tech note I found on line from 2009 they said they were working on resolving the problem so maybe they did...

[cpaharley2008]

That is different than mine, I just have a 12v plug and a cable tv plug. The 12v outlets can be interchangeable. Take a 12v plug that works and remove the back, it just screws on and replace the bad one with a correct one and screw it onto the plate. Another option is just replace the plug with a cable plate and add another 12v receptacle of your choosing, that is what ETI did to mine. I'll look at my build pictures and post.

[cpaharley2008]

Here are my pictures of both my tv outlets, the first one is the main with the power button for the antenna and other is the slave, both with 12v below/next:

[FMLNM]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

Here are my pictures of both my tv outlets, the first one is the main with the power button for the antenna and other is the slave, both with 12v below/next:

Indeed! We may take apart the coax/12v combo faceplate we have and put in a new 12v like yours. We still need the ones we are trying to install in the loft area for our CPAPs. Giving up on it for tonight....

[padlin]

My 06 Starcraft had the same issue with the 12v TV plug too small, looked like yours. Never had a 12v TV so I never used the plug, charged in the truck.

[FMLNM]

Latest update in the continuing saga:
Taking the advice to redo the connections and also suspecting that the snap-on splice connectors that we had been using might not conduct enough juice, we removed the 'snap-on' connectors and replaced them with wire nuts. When we checked the voltage at the end of the wire we now had 13 v...more than the 12v reading with the snap on splicers. We wired up the Walmart receptacle and our phone charger did NOT light up, so we checked the voltage inside the outlet and it only read 6 volts. SO, we removed the Walmart receptacle and wired up the Marinco Sealink marine outlet. The Marinco read 12 volts and it DID run the phone charger successfully. So at least we have a functional 12v outlet for that purpose BUT, it would not run either of our CPAP machines (one draws 5 amps the other 6.7). (They run fine on the 12v outlet in our tow vehicle.)

So our options now seem to be to just use an extension cord from the loft to the outlet in the dinette area that is powered by our solar inverter (1500) or perhaps run a dedicated cable from the circuit box to the loft...problem with that option is we have no idea how to get the wiring from point A to point B!

Thanks for all the input from everyone so far! Any more suggestions or advice?

[Vermilye]

If I was going to run a CPAP machine (or anything else that draws more than an amp or two) I'd make a new home run to the converter and put it on its own circuit.

[GerriJ]

Fran and Dave, are you sure that the plug on your CPAP machine is seating properly in the 12V socket. I have come across this several times where they just don't mate properly. Quality control on 12V sockets seems to be lacking although one would think the plug quality on a CPAP machine would be high. Forgive me if this is aready been mentioned.
Good luck.

[FMLNM]

Originally Posted by Vermilye

If I was going to run a CPAP machine (or anything else that draws more than an amp or two) I'd make a new home run to the converter and put it on its own circuit.

Indeed...that's the best route but how in the heck do you get the wiring from the back of the trailer to the front of the trailer without hanging exposed wiring from the walls/ceiling?!?!

[FMLNM]

Originally Posted by GerriJ

Fran and Dave, are you sure that the plug on your CPAP machine is seating properly in the 12V socket. I have come across this several times where they just don't mate properly. Quality control on 12V sockets seems to be lacking although one would think the plug quality on a CPAP machine would be high. Forgive me if this is aready been mentioned.
Good luck.

Don't apologize...all suggestions/comments welcome! In this case, on one of the CPAP machines, we were able to get an indicator light on the CPAP transformer (?) but apparently not enough juice to actually turn the CPAP on....and the fit seemed ok and we repositioned it and jiggled it around to see if there was a problem with the fit. Perhaps there is a minimum voltage required before the machine can fire up...

[tractors1]

Originally Posted by FMLNM

Indeed...that's the best route but how in the heck do you get the wiring from the back of the trailer to the front of the trailer without hanging exposed wiring from the walls/ceiling?!?!

If you peruse the "It's Friday" thread you'll probably find build pictures of a 5 that show the wiring & plumbing routes before the interior was finished off. I also checked when at ETI and found the padded corners are easily removable - that's where they run the wiring up and down between the ceiling/upper cabinets and the floor.
Another thought might be to tie into the 12V supply at the fridge, since it's set up for heavier current - if you're not using 12V for the fridge cooling and the CPAP at the same time you should be ok.

[jamman]

Maybe you can take power from the landing gear circuit - shouldn't be running it while sleeping and it should be a heavier wire.

From the driver side dinette I think you can get to the space beneath the fridge. And from there the back of the bathroom. (On my 19 it was pretty easy to get a wire behind the bath - use a thin piece of lath or a stiff wire or a thin fiberglass rod.) I do not know about getting by/through the closet next to bath.

[FMLNM]

Originally Posted by tractors1

If you peruse the "It's Friday" thread you'll probably find build pictures of a 5 that show the wiring & plumbing routes before the interior was finished off. I also checked when at ETI and found the padded corners are easily removable - that's where they run the wiring up and down between the ceiling/upper cabinets and the floor.
Another thought might be to tie into the 12V supply at the fridge, since it's set up for heavier current - if you're not using 12V for the fridge cooling and the CPAP at the same time you should be ok.

Would there be a heavier (or any) 12v going to the fridge if our fridge is only a 2 way - propane + 110 ? (Sorry if that's a dumb question...)

[FMLNM]

Originally Posted by jamman

Maybe you can take power from the landing gear circuit - shouldn't be running it while sleeping and it should be a heavier wire.

From the driver side dinette I think you can get to the space beneath the fridge. And from there the back of the bathroom. (On my 19 it was pretty easy to get a wire behind the bath - use a thin piece of lath or a stiff wire or a thin fiberglass rod.) I do not know about getting by/through the closet next to bath.

On our 5.0 Classic the drivers side (from loft back to the dinette) goes: loft then clothes closet then bathroom then stove & sink then dinette. We'll have to search around and see if there is any way to get to the landing gear wiring...you are right, there should not be any circumstance where we are running the CPAPs AND the landing gear

[jamman]

A 110/LP only fridge does not need much in the way of 12V - just control board power. (But ETI may wire them all the same so you might have heavier wiring.) You should be able to see the wires via the lower fridge vent.

Guess I messed up the layout. I would still try to run a new circuit. Look at older build pics as tractors suggested.

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by FMLNM

Indeed...that's the best route but how in the heck do you get the wiring from the back of the trailer to the front of the trailer without hanging exposed wiring from the walls/ceiling?!?!

Go down through the floor, follow the frame and come up where you need it.

I've done this for my hard wired rear view camera etc. Put the wire in the split corrugated plastic wire cover sold for such purposes and zap strap it up out of the way.

A continuous wire is always better than ones with several connections, especially for medical devices.

Ron