Advantages of 12V when you have an inverter?

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by LeonW

And the quality of the roadkill just isn't what it used to be.

Use more Ketchup and BBQ sauce

Ron

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

we plan quick and easy meals for travel day. Something with just a few minutes of cooking time, like a Caesar salad with grilled chicken. 5 minutes and we are eating.

Us too, sometimes McDonalds is even quicker

Ron

[Bobbito]

Originally Posted by hotfishtacos

Here are some examples where extra 12 volt outlets help.
> One under the dinette for charging phones, notepads, etc.
> One near the kitchen for running a 12 volt appliance
> One near the bed for charging phones, notepads, etc. Folks like the phone nearby when sleeping so this helps.
> One near the bed for a 12 volts fan(s) when hot. We use this one a lot.
> One outside to run small lamps or appliances under the awning.

etc, etc..the more the better...

This thread brings up something that I was wondering about as we wait for our trailer build date. We will be using two 6 volt batteries (230 Ah) in our Escape 21. How much would using a 12 volt outlet to charge an iPad or iPhone deplete the battery? My wife's iPad 3 has 11,560 mAh capacity. My iPhone 5 has 1900 may capacity. Being that they run at about 5V, does this mean that in calculating the power drain from the 12 V battery system (two 6 volt; 230 Ah) you can multiply the battery drain by 5/12? Of course when boon docking at remote lakes and recharging with the generator every few days (simultaneously charging Minn Kota battery) we probably never get more than 75% of a full charge. So is the calculation something like:

230 Ah x 12 V - (1.9 Ah x (5 V ÷ 12 V))

This means the drop in Ah would be less than 1 Ah to charge the iPad and not make a big dent on the approximately 175 Ah that would be available while boon docking (230 Ah x 0.75)

I'm not sure if the units are right because A x V = watts, but hopefully someone with more electrical smarts can tell me if this calculation give me the right answer.

Bob K

[Greggo]

If you want smarts, might not find it here, but re: charging via 12v, my experience with phones and tablets has been an insignificant draw on the battery. Even an xm receiver can go all day and not show any drain. However, and the basis of my question on the efficiency of an inverter, charging just about anything on 110v (like a laptop or the same tablet) using my plug-in inverter results in a much higher draw to the extent I actually avoid using it.

[cpaharley2008]

Bob,
Here is a good start to your understanding The 12volt Side of Life (Part 1)
part one and two will answer most of your questions. You are on the right track....
also do not forget 12v outlet where the tv will be located.
I have one each in the o/h over the dinette and one each on the bottom sides of dinette and one over the night stand, one under the bed, and finally one over the bed. Seven total

[jamman]

Originally Posted by Bobbito

This thread brings up something that I was wondering about as we wait for our trailer build date. We will be using two 6 volt batteries (230 Ah) in our Escape 21. How much would using a 12 volt outlet to charge an iPad or iPhone deplete the battery? My wife's iPad 3 has 11,560 mAh capacity. My iPhone 5 has 1900 may capacity. Being that they run at about 5V, does this mean that in calculating the power drain from the 12 V battery system (two 6 volt; 230 Ah) you can multiply the battery drain by 5/12? Of course when boon docking at remote lakes and recharging with the generator every few days (simultaneously charging Minn Kota battery) we probably never get more than 75% of a full charge. So is the calculation something like:

230 Ah x 12 V - (1.9 Ah x (5 V ÷ 12 V))

This means the drop in Ah would be less than 1 Ah to charge the iPad and not make a big dent on the approximately 175 Ah that would be available while boon docking (230 Ah x 0.75)

I'm not sure if the units are right because A x V = watts, but hopefully someone with more electrical smarts can tell me if this calculation give me the right answer.

Bob K

You are basically correct with 1 major issue.

Minor point: I add about 10% for any load which changes/converts/charges for inefficiency.

Major point: Repeatedly discharging batteries deeply and not fully recharging them can shorten their life significantly. Most sources recommend not discharging below 50% on average.

We have solar and can boondock indefinitely in the summer without a generator if we are parked in the sun. (Summer = good sun, no furnace use, LED lights, minimal inverter use) Water and sewer are our limiting factors.

See: Deep Cycle Battery FAQ

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by escape artist

Hi: Jim Bennett... Here's an easy solution. Add some Johnsonville Brats to a wide mouth thermos leaving a bit of space. Fill with boiling water, seal, and place it in the sink. Ready to eat when you are!!! Pass the mustard and relish. Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

I love brats, but they need to be nicely browned on the outside. Usually done over the fire, but nearly as good on the BBQ.

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

Us too, sometimes McDonalds is even quicker

Ron

While I have stopped many a time for a quick burger, I have not stopped at Micky D's for way over 10 years. Just don't care for them. Besides, DQ has ice cream.

[yardsale]

Originally Posted by padlin

If anyone runs across a queen size 12v blanket let me know.

Down quilt uses less power I believe.

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by yardsale

Down quilt uses less power I believe.

We use a down duvet, nice and cozy, and as warm as I would ever want to be, even with the thermostat turned down low (9°C (48°F) is what it is set at for night time). I actually have never used, or even had the desire to use, an electric blanket. Not really sure I would want something like that providing heat under me, as I imagine sweating a lot.

I do have a couple friends that seem to have trouble keeping warm, I wonder if they use them.

[JimJ]

Leon: I remember that book also--it's called Manifold Destiny--and is still available on Amazon. I own it, but I have to admit, I've never tried it. The concept seems like it would work.

[Bobbito]

Thanks, Jim, for pointing out there is a part 2 to the 12 Volt side of life. I read the first part months ago, but learned a lot from reading the 2nd half. It appears that my 230 Ah battery charged to 75% will have close to 175 Ah when charged on the generator for maybe 4 hrs. The iPhone would only draw down about 1 Ah, but the iPad would draw down about 6 Ah. I appreciate the feedback from Greggo that in his experience charging phones and tablets isn't a big deal, but I'm a numbers guy and needed to do the math.

Doug, we would be considering solar except for three reasons. Our campsites are frequently in well treed areas, so we are shaded from what sun there is. In the BC areas we fish there is much cloud and rain. Using the Minn Kota electric motor on our 12 foot aluminum boat requires recharging every 2-4 days, depending on how much we troll. In the past we have been a little less frugal running our lights etc, knowing we could charge our trailer batteries at the same time as the boat's battery.

One further question. Where is the standard inside 12V DC outlet in the Escape 21?


Bob

[tractors1]

Standard 12V outlet in the 21 is in the nightstand between the bed and the closet, facing the bed.

[gbaglo]

There are 12V splitters available. I've got a couple of these for car and trailer.

[Bobbito]

Originally Posted by tractors1

Standard 12V outlet in the 21 is in the nightstand between the bed and the closet, facing the bed.

That would be my first pick for a 12V outlet. The second would be by the dinette. I'm thinking we will spring for this.

Originally Posted by gbaglo

There are 12V splitters available. I've got a couple of these for car and trailer.

We will definitely need this when we want to charge both devices.

Thanks for the advice, guys.

[gbaglo]

I've got 12V extension cords as well. Opens up lots of options, as long as you don't mind tripping over wires.
For the price, I'd just add 12V outlets wherever I think I might use them.

[buzz&jessie]

Having read everyone's posts, 'seems Mecca runs on 12 Volt too. It's time to ask the inverse: what might one miss by not having an inverter (other than low draw cigarette-style units from hardware stores)?

[hotfishtacos]

Originally Posted by buzz&jessie

Having read everyone's posts, 'seems Mecca runs on 12 Volt too. It's time to ask the inverse: what might one miss by not having an inverter (other than low draw cigarette-style units from hardware stores)?

>Electrical griddle - bacon, pancakes, french toast, eggs, etc.

>Blender - margarita's, etc

>Toaster - toast, bagels

>Electric blanket - to warm the bed

>Dehumidifier

[cpaharley2008]

Originally Posted by hotfishtacos

>Electrical griddle - bacon, pancakes, french toast, eggs, etc.
>Blender - margarita's, etc.
>Toaster - toast, bagels
>Electric blanket - to warm the bed
>Dehumidifier

Actually all of the above mentioned hot food items can easily be prepared on your stove, either inside or outside or on the campfire so they will not be missed. Electric cords will not be missed nor will carrying around the extra 120v appliances and extension cords will not be missed. But having the ability to camp anywhere you want, if available, would be missed.

[Rossue]

We don't watch a lot of TV; didn't order an antenna. With data plans getting cheaper all the time we carry a 27" flatscreen we store under the dinette and occasionally use it to watch Dish Network via my Samsung S3 with their connector which needs AC as does the TV. Several posts rate 12V TV's being just OK. We also use a Vita-Mix. With 5 standard AC outlets we opted not to have any more 12V put in as we really don't need them. No problem yet with single 12V Group 29 house battery with the solar option.

[hotfishtacos]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

Actually all of the above mentioned hot food items can easily be prepared on your stove, either inside or outside or on the campfire so they will not be missed. Electric cords will not be missed nor will carrying around the extra 120v appliances and extension cords will not be missed. But having the ability to camp anywhere you want, if available, would be missed.

Obviously, Jim has never had a frozen margarita while camping!