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Old 04-02-2016, 02:00 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by algonquin50 View Post
... They are also extremely resistant to vibration.
...
Aircraft, sailboats, etc. use them extensively.
They are also popular with off-road vehicles due to the vibration resistance and the fact that they can be tilted to any angle without damage.
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Old 04-02-2016, 03:22 PM   #32
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.......not to mention that dancing girls deliver them.
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Old 04-02-2016, 10:00 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Santiago View Post

Jim, going without the propane refrigerator, shell cutouts and roof vent. Will supply my own electric one that yes will go through the 21 classic door. It's just a little wood working the power top tap will be there. Leveling and day long cool down will be thing of the past.
Is your reason for going with this fridge because of the lack of options to fit through that door, with the poorer hot weather performance of them, or just because you would prefer the electric only fridge performance?

If you had the capacity to get a better 3-way fridge, like Escape is using in the 2017 models, would you have gone that way?

What model fridge to you plan to use, and what battery capacity?

Maybe a subject for another thread, but I am curious and interested in hearing all options.

Hi Jim, just returned from house rebuilding. It's our retirement home we work on weekends only as Kim and I still work, December we retire. We gutted it and are rebuilding everything !

As to why we are buying out 21 classic without the shell cut outs and absorption fridge, we are not fond of what seems like 99% of RVs use. The boating crowd got it right they are ahead of the RV industry. I appreciate absorption refrigeration's benefits like long supply of energy for boon docking, just refill the propane bottles. That is the only benefit I see and will miss that. The absorption technology cooling performance is no match for the Dan Flos compressor units, cools quickly even when not level on a hill or some steep driveways, that's one of my problems when loading at home.

Nova Kool is the vendor I chose, they are Canadian as I recall. Because of the 21 classic's limited door width and to not disturb the existing fridge cabinet too much, I might have to settle for a 2 door 6- 6.8 cf unit. If I can remove a couple of flanges I would like the 7.3 cf unit. In the new 2017 21 ft, that should not be a problem as it has wider door.

With solar you can boon dock a lot more without having a large battery set up. If you mostly plug in, then electric is a no brainer.

I will say this, electric fridge in larger RVs is not common as there is a price penalty due to batteries. I think the units themselves are comparable in price with absorption units. Still its not for everyone.

You can look up Fish Taco who replaced his absorption unit with a Nova Kool on his 19 ft. He seemed pleased with the performance and not that difficult to install. Unfortunately he still has the shell and roof cut outs. I am going to avoid that.

I need to dig up my calcs for different scenarios but as I recall I was considering 2 Lifeline 12v 255 AH Deep Cycle Sealed AGM Battery - GPL-8DA - about US$650 each. Can you see why absorption refrigerators sell so well. Only die hards will pay. These two 12 v produce 510 amp-hr drawing down only 50% you are back to 225 ah available. I calculated that the model I was interested needed 63 ah daily. So in theory 225 ah / 63 = 3.6 days of use. This are rough estimates, your mileage will vary. I will dedicate these two batteries to the fridge and have another house battery.

If you have external amp supply like solar, auto charging while driving, camp generator or charger when plugged in at a campground, you can get unlimited use.

I am dead set on bringing my trailer home without the fridge, will use ice cooler till I get the electric one installed. We have the tools and know how.
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Old 04-02-2016, 10:01 PM   #34
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Hi Jim, just returned from house rebuilding. It's our retirement home we work on weekends only as Kim and I still work, December we retire. We gutted it and are rebuilding everything !

As to why we are buying our 21 classic without the shell cut outs and absorption fridge, we are not fond of what it seems 99% of RVs use today. The boating crowd got it right they are ahead of the RV industry. I appreciate absorption refrigeration's benefits like long supply of energy for boon docking, just refill the propane bottles. That is the only benefit I see and will miss that. The absorption technology cooling performance is no match for the Dan Flos compressor units, cools quickly even when not level on a hill or some steep driveways, that's one of my problems when loading at home.

Nova Kool is the vendor I chose, they are Canadian as I recall. Because of the 21 classic's limited door width and to not disturb the existing fridge cabinet too much, I might have to settle for a 2 door 6- 6.8 cf unit. If I can remove a couple of flanges to just get it through the door, I would like the 7.3 cf unit instead. In the new 2017 21 ft that should not be a problem as it has a wider door.

With solar you can boon dock a lot more without having a large battery set up. If you mostly plug in, then electric is a no brainer.

I will say this, electric fridge in larger RVs is not common as there is a price penalty due to the batteries. I think the units themselves are comparable in price with absorption units. Still its not for everyone.

You can look up the Fish Taco posts who replaced his absorption unit with a Nova Kool on his 19 ft. He seemed pleased with the performance and was not that difficult to install. Unfortunately he still has the shell and roof cut outs. I am going to avoid that.

I need to dig up my calcs for different scenarios but as I recall I was considering 2 Lifeline 12v 255 AH Deep Cycle Sealed AGM Battery - GPL-8DA - about US$650 each. Can you see why absorption refrigerators sell so well. Only die hards will pay as much for the batteries as the refrigerator! These two 12 v AGM batteries produce 510 amp-hr drawing down only 50% you are back to 225 ah available. I calculated that the model I was interested needed 63 ah daily. So in theory 225 ah / 63 = 3.6 days of use. This are rough estimates, your mileage will vary. I will dedicate these two batteries to the fridge and have another house battery.

If you have external ampere supply like solar, tow charging while driving, camp generator or charger when plugged in at a campground, you can get unlimited use.

I am dead set on bringing my trailer home without the fridge, will use ice cooler till I get the electric one installed. We have the tools and know how.
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Old 04-03-2016, 02:01 AM   #35
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... I was considering 2 Lifeline 12v 255 AH Deep Cycle Sealed AGM Battery - GPL-8DA ...

If you have external amp supply like solar, auto charging while driving, camp generator or charger when plugged in at a campground, you can get unlimited use.
I would use the GPL-8DL: it appears that the only difference is the terminals, and the -8DL has more suitable lugs to bolt ring terminals to, rather than the automotive style posts of the -8DA. (I assume that the "L" or "A" simply describes the terminals.)

Two 8D batteries - that's 312 pounds (or 142 kg). They should work well, but I hope they're mounted close to the axle rather than under the rear of the dinette.

If you want to get significant charging while driving, I suggest seriously looking at a DC-to-DC charger, rather than expecting the voltage that happens to result from the tug's charging system operation to be suitable. It should be no problem to pump 30 amps into the trailer's batteries with a suitable charger, but just a wire to the tug's battery won't do that.
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Old 04-03-2016, 02:23 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
I would use the GPL-8DL: it appears that the only difference is the terminals, and the -8DL has more suitable lugs to bolt ring terminals to, rather than the automotive style posts of the -8DA. (I assume that the "L" or "A" simply describes the terminals.)

Two 8D batteries - that's 312 pounds (or 142 kg). They should work well, but I hope they're mounted close to the axle rather than under the rear of the dinette.

If you want to get significant charging while driving, I suggest seriously looking at a DC-to-DC charger, rather than expecting the voltage that happens to result from the tug's charging system operation to be suitable. It should be no problem to pump 30 amps into the trailer's batteries with a suitable charger, but just a wire to the tug's battery won't do that.
Hi Brian .... I'm very interested in your last paragraphs statement .... DC to DC charging and a wire not being enough.

Could you please elaborate on that? I have run a 10 guage wire from my alternator to my trailer electrical connection ... 7 pin. In looking further into voltage drop issues I have been thinking about changing that out for an 8 guage wire. Not sure at this time what ETI installs from the 7 pin back to the battery charger. I have a 17A with the batteries and charger in the very rear and the distance is great enough to pay attention to voltage drop. I think my 90 amp tow alternator should be able to add significantly to my trailer battery charge while traveling. Can you offer some advice?

Thank you,

Tom


I'm off to learn more about DC to DC charging.
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Old 04-03-2016, 02:24 AM   #37
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Hi Brian,

Yes the L, A and a few others I think are the terminals, automotive lugs are non-starter.
The suckers are heavy and after measuring the 21 at ETI last September I think that after a little "persuasion", cutting and pasting I can fit one on each side over the axle to keep the rig in balance.

On the truck charging, I am thinking of inverting the truck's battery/alternator 12vDC to 120 vAC, sending 20amps ( wired for 30amps in case it can ) over to the truck's hitch. It will bypass the 7 pin trailer connector for obvious reason as well as safety. From there to the trailer's True Charge 40 I already have and will install in the 21ft.

Unlike wet cells, AGM can take high charging rates. The True Charge can service wet, AGM and GEL and also distribute them over three channels that can not exceed 40 amps.

Will have details after I get my hands on the trailer some time this year.
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Old 04-03-2016, 02:33 AM   #38
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One more thing, for safety, AC wiring running from inverter to trailer's charger will be inside rigid and flex pvc conduit.
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Old 04-03-2016, 02:37 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by StarvingHyena View Post
Hi Brian .... I'm very interested in your last paragraphs statement .... DC to DC charging and a wire not being enough.

Could you please elaborate on that? I have run a 10 guage wire from my alternator to my trailer electrical connection ... 7 pin. In looking further into voltage drop issues I have been thinking about changing that out for an 8 guage wire. Not sure at this time what ETI installs from the 7 pin back to the battery charger. I have a 17A with the batteries and charger in the very rear and the distance is great enough to pay attention to voltage drop. I think my 90 amp tow alternator should be able to add significantly to my trailer battery charge while traveling.
The 10-gauge wire it common; heavier wire will help. Yes, the problem is voltage drop: the charging system puts out what the tow vehicle's battery needs (roughly) and the trailer battery gets less than that due to voltage loss in the wire... which might not be enough to be very useful.

The current output capacity of the tow vehicle's alternator is nearly irrelevant: you could have a 200-amp alternator (a common feature of police cars and option on commercial vehicles) and it won't help any, because it is still regulated to put out a voltage which won't be ideal for the trailer.

A DC-to-DC charger takes in DC power (roughly 12 volts from the tug in this case) and puts out DC power - whatever voltage is needed by the trailer battery in this case, following the usual battery charger logic. As the trailer battery gets charged that means that the charger will be boosting the voltage (and thus the input current is higher than the output current). They're really expensive, because they are very rarely used; almost everyone just settles for whatever the trailer happens to get. I don't have one - I never have never relied on getting a lot of charge into the trailer battery while driving.
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Old 04-03-2016, 02:47 AM   #40
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On the truck charging, I am thinking of inverting the truck's battery/alternator 12vDC to 120 vAC, sending 20amps ( wired for 30amps in case it can ) over to the truck's hitch. It will bypass the 7 pin trailer connector for obvious reason as well as safety. From there to the trailer's True Charge 40 I already have and will install in the 21ft.
Although somewhat indirect (12 V DC to 120 V AC to 12 V DC), this would certainly work well... if you find a suitably effective and safe 120 V AC connection between the vehicles. You certainly don't need 20 or 30 amps @ 120 V, unless you want 200 amps of DC charging and are willing to run a 2.4 kW inverter in the tug to support it. Maybe a 40 amp @ 14 V DC charger output, and so 5 amps @ 120 V AC of power from a 600 watt inverter and 15 amps of AC wiring capacity?
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