AGM Batteries

[Santiago]

Yes 5 amp at 120vac is quite do able Brian, economical and matches my existing charger's output. Thank you. Will design a safety on the 120vac truck bumper to trailer connection when hitching/unhitching.

I did say that keeping my veggies cold with electricity was not cheap nor easy. This is why 2/3way absorption units are so popular. On the other hand I wouldn't trade any of this design-build stuff for any amount of $ savings. Thanks again for your advise.

[StarvingHyena]

Thank you Brian .... I have some learning to do.


Tom

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Santiago

On the truck charging, I am thinking of inverting the truck's battery/alternator 12vDC to 120 vAC, sending 20amps ( wired for 30amps in case it can ) over to the truck's hitch. It will bypass the 7 pin trailer connector for obvious reason as well as safety. From there to the trailer's True Charge 40 I already have and will install in the 21ft.

This makes sense if you have a use for the 120 V AC power in the truck. It also transmits power at the highest voltage (and thus lowest current) in the system, which is good for efficiency.
But...

That "suitably effective and safe 120 V AC connection between the vehicles" might be tough, so an alternative would be to place the inverter on the trailer, and just feed DC power conventionally though the 7-pin connector. The inverter and True Charge together would form a DC-to-DC charger, built up out of routinely available components (instead of looking for a specialty charger). The 120 V AC connection between them can be entirely within the trailer, where it is easy to safely and effectively make the connection.

Regardless of the inverter location, you would need to switch the input of the charger between shore power and tug+inverter sources, either manually or with an automatic transfer switch as commonly used with onboard generators.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

I would use the GPL-8DL: it appears that the only difference is the terminals, and the -8DL has more suitable lugs to bolt ring terminals to, rather than the automotive style posts of the -8DA. (I assume that the "L" or "A" simply describes the terminals.)

Originally Posted by Santiago

Yes the L, A and a few others I think are the terminals, automotive lugs are non-starter.

In the Lifeline Batteries naming scheme:

• deep-cycle and marine names start with "GP" (for "general Purpose"?
• all product names then have "L-" (presumably for "Lifeline")
• that's followed by the case size description (usually a BCI group designation)
  • utility size: U1
  • industrial sizes: 8D, 4D, L16, 6C, 4C
  • automotive sizes: 31 or 3100, 30, 27 or 2700, 24 or 2400
• then the terminal type
  • T = threaded post, A = automotive post, L=L-blade
• and if it is a 2-volt (single cell) product, "-2V"

So the GPL-8DL would be an RV/Marine, Lifeline, BCI size 8D, with L-blade terminals (in 12V because that's what an 8D usually is). I would want "L" or "T" terminals.

[sclifrickson]

Regarding discussion of using lithium batteries, a point to bear in mind is that they require a special fire extinguisher (Class D) should they catch on fire. But maybe that only happens on Boeing Dreamliners.

[Tford]

Just a quick note about AGM batteries, troll around the early Mazda Miata forums (and like other folks have mentioned-off road forums) they had AGM's located in the trunk (away from engine heat) and many owners report 6-9 year battery life. So double or triple lifespan claims against traditional batts are not too far off base.

[AKCamper]

I may be the odd duck, but I was a mechanic for 38 years and I like the ability to check specific gravity. I can see a need or want to have an AGM battery but it's not for everyone. I go with Handyman Bob and vote for Trojan or Crown lead acid. I have a really nice refractometer that checks batteries and antifreeze. I think if my batteries were inside my trailer rather than in the storage box like they will be I may think differently.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by AKCamper

I may be the odd duck, but I was a mechanic for 38 years and I like the ability to check specific gravity.

Since an AGM battery doesn't use up water, there's nothing to do to maintain the electrolyte, so not being able to check it is not an issue. If the purpose to assess the charge level of the battery, then that makes sense to me. Perhaps if going for the premium-priced AGM battery type, it is worth also putting in a proper battery monitoring system.

Originally Posted by AKCamper

I go with Handyman Bob and vote for Trojan or Crown lead acid.

AGM batteries are lead-acid. Handy Bob prefers flooded batteries to AGM or gel types.

[AKCamper]

Brian,
I realize that AGM batteries are lead-acid. You can't find a better way to check not only the condition and the state of charge of a battery than by specific gravity (although a Bogart Engineering's TM-2030 does a great job of monitoring charge levels).
Everyone has their own opinion, but after reading the "Battery Charging Puzzle" where Handyman Bob says:

"Now, I will tell you why I am not a fan of the new technology batteries like gel cell & AGM: Your charge system has to be set at a lower voltage for them, so more of the power your solar panels could produce is not available for use. (Lower volts equals fewer watts.) Take a look at this web site: Sterling Power Products. Like me, this guy takes heat from people who don’t like his common sense approach when getting to the truth, but he knows what he is talking about. With sealed batteries you end up with less power in the same amount of space and weight. Big ones are available, but they are very expensive. All this so you don’t have to add water and can’t check the electrolyte to monitor their condition. Suit yourself, but this really doesn’t sound like a good bargain to me. Unless I owned a rig that had extreme access issues, I would not even consider anything except Trojan flooded deep cycle 6V golf cart batteries."

And, like I said I like to monitor the batteries by specific gravity. I did it for decades as a mechanic. But that is just me, each to their own.

[gbaglo]

Off topic ( sort of ), just bought four CR2032 button batteries at Mountain Equipment Coop. Cost for four was $2, plus 24 cents tax. Made in China.
A pack of four brand name CR2032 batteries at London Drugs is $14.99. Plus $1.80 tax.

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

Off topic ( sort of ), just bought four CR2032 button batteries at Mountain Equipment Coop. Cost for four was $2, plus 24 cents tax. Made in China.
A pack of four brand name CR2032 batteries at London Drugs is $14.99. Plus $1.80 tax.

Glen also found at IKEA 1.99 for a pack of 8 . I couldn't believe it at first but have been using . Pat

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by AKCamper

I realize that AGM batteries are lead-acid.

Yes, but lots of novices don't. They get confused by people saying "lead-acid" as if it were different from AGM or gel, when they mean "flooded".

Originally Posted by AKCamper

...Handyman Bob says:

"Now, I will tell you why I am not a fan of the new technology batteries like gel cell & AGM: Your charge system has to be set at a lower voltage for them, so more of the power your solar panels could produce is not available for use.

As soon as someone lumps AGM and gel together, I think you should question their conclusions. Also, neither of these technologies is "new", having been around for a few decades.

Handy Bob also concludes that AGM batteries have less capacity for the same volume, but in most brands (such as Trojan) they don't. If volume (not weight) is a limitation, this is an issue with Optima's AGM batteries, because their cylindrical cells don't pack well into rectangular spaces.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by Tford

Just a quick note about AGM batteries, troll around the early Mazda Miata forums (and like other folks have mentioned-off road forums) they had AGM's located in the trunk (away from engine heat) and many owners report 6-9 year battery life. So double or triple lifespan claims against traditional batts are not too far off base.

I had a 2004 Mazdaspeed Miata that I sold when I picked up our Truck and trailer. I replaced the factory Panasonic AGM battery in the Miata in 2014. Ten years of solid performance - and that was in South Texas heat. I think it would have lasted even longer if I had driven the car more frequently. It only had 45k miles on it when I sold it.

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

I had a 2004 Mazdaspeed Miata that I sold when I picked up our Truck and trailer. I replaced the factory Panasonic AGM battery in the Miata in 2014. Ten years of solid performance - and that was in South Texas heat. I think it would have lasted even longer if I had driven the car more frequently. It only had 45k miles on it when I sold it.

Midlife crisis over?

They are great little cars. The most fun for the buck.

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

Midlife crisis over?

They are great little cars. The most fun for the buck.

Yeah, bought it new in 2004 Jim, and it was alot of fun to drive.

Just couldn't justify having it around anymore taking up valuable garage space, since I didn't find the time to drive it much. Good memories though - like taking the hairpin turns on Texas Hwy 16 going into Kerrville at about 80 mph while my poor wife was holding on for dear life.

[Jim Bennett]

Well, after lots more looking about and reading, I am convinced I am going to go with AGM batteries, if nothing else, but for the long term value. I am going to check with Escape to see if this is something they would upgrade, and if so what battery it would be. If not, I am pretty sure I will go with the Lifeline GPL-4CT 6V, which are a good size, and have decent capacity.

I think I will just stick with the standard termials, an M* threaded insert, but am curious as to others thoughts on the merits of the optional L-blade or Marine Terminals. I don't really see a big advantage.

[JStelly]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

Yeah, bought it new in 2004 Jim, and it was alot of fun to drive.

Just couldn't justify having it around anymore taking up valuable garage space, since I didn't find the time to drive it much. Good memories though - like taking the hairpin turns on Texas Hwy 16 going into Kerrville at about 80 mph while my poor wife was holding on for dear life.

Have done the same road in my Mini. [emoji4]. Lots of roads around Kerrville are fun to drive.

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by rbryan4

I had a 2004 Mazdaspeed Miata that I sold when I picked up our Truck and trailer. I replaced the factory Panasonic AGM battery in the Miata in 2014. Ten years of solid performance - and that was in South Texas heat. I think it would have lasted even longer if I had driven the car more frequently. It only had 45k miles on it when I sold it.

Interesting, my wife has a 2008 retractable hardtop with 17,000 miles on it. It was her summer car for 5 years. The original Panasonic battery lasted 4 years and now the second one is showing signs of needing replacement despite keeping it charged over the winter etc. So you're probably right, minimum use for batteries doesn't do them any favors.

Ron

[freespirit]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

Well, after lots more looking about and reading, I am convinced I am going to go with AGM batteries, if nothing else, but for the long term value. I am going to check with Escape to see if this is something they would upgrade, and if so what battery it would be. If not, I am pretty sure I will go with the Lifeline GPL-4CT 6V, which are a good size, and have decent capacity.

I was reading this thread thinking what I would do with the batteries on the Escape 19. I couldn't find exact info on the Escape website for the dual 6 v battery option, perhaps I missed it. If you talk to Escape about the dual 6 volt batteries, please ask them to post the battery MFG, PN, Weight, and dimensions for the dual 6 volt battery option on a Escape 19 (assume they are the same for your trailer choice). I suggest this assuming the dual 6 volt option is not an AGM battery and therefore wondering if Escape will offer a dual 6 volt Lifeline (or Other) AGM upgrade and if so how much, MFG, PN, etc? Will need to know the specs of the current battery in the dual 6 volt option so I know what fits in the storage box in case Escape does not offer an AGM upgrade and I have to provide them.
also if anyone has any pictures of the dual 6 volt option on an Escape 19 please post them or a link.
Thank you

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by freespirit

I was reading this thread thinking what I would do with the batteries on the Escape 19. I couldn't find exact info on the Escape website for the dual 6 v battery option, perhaps I missed it. If you talk to Escape about the dual 6 volt batteries, please ask them to post the battery MFG, PN, Weight, and dimensions for the dual 6 volt battery option on a Escape 19 (assume they are the same for your trailer choice). I suggest this assuming the dual 6 volt option is not an AGM battery and therefore wondering if Escape will offer a dual 6 volt Lifeline (or Other) AGM upgrade and if so how much, MFG, PN, etc?

It appears to be listed only as "Dual 6V Batteries (232 amp hrs )", even for the 19' (which is less out-of-date than other models on the website). In various discussions it has been described as the Interstate GC2-XHD or GC2-XHD-UTL. Interstate U2200 were used previously. The stock battery is a single 12-volt Interstate Group 27 sized RV model (SRM-27), and the other option is a single 12-volt Interstate Group 29 sized RV model (SRM-29).
Correct, none of the battery choices from Escape are AGM; all are conventional flooded deep-cycle lead-acid.