Black or Gray tank Smell in 2017 21; how to prevent?

[dfandrews]

Originally Posted by azjack

I can't even remember my own age, I'll be 75 this fall. We have been to most places we want to go and realize we have been there many times.
Jack

Ah, Jack, it's got to be better than that.
1. You carry a driver's license, so, like me, you don't have to remember how old you are.
2. I'm 4 years behind you, but the wife & I figure there's a lot of places that we don't even know about that we're going to explore in the next 20 years. We have a new mantra for trips: take routes we haven't used before. We started applying it when we went to the Escape Rally & back.
examples: Used WA-14 instead of I-84 to go east on the Columbia River. Beautiful 2 lane highway, with old rock-hewn tunnels, so trucks go a different way.
Used US-395 all the way home, thru WA, OR, and most of the way thru eastern CA. Saw beautiful landscapes and geology, lots of interesting little towns. nobody on the road w/us most of the time.
Think we'll start a new thread on places to go! Hope to see you on the road, or next time we cruise thru AZ.

[float5]

Originally Posted by dfandrews

Ah, Jack, it's got to be better than that.
1. You carry a driver's license, so, like me, you don't have to remember how old you are.
2. I'm 4 years behind you, but the wife & I figure there's a lot of places that we don't even know about that we're going to explore in the next 20 years. We have a new mantra for trips: take routes we haven't used before. We started applying it when we went to the Escape Rally & back.
examples: Used WA-14 instead of I-84 to go east on the Columbia River. Beautiful 2 lane highway, with old rock-hewn tunnels, so trucks go a different way.
Used US-395 all the way home, thru WA, OR, and most of the way thru eastern CA. Saw beautiful landscapes and geology, lots of interesting little towns. nobody on the road w/us most of the time.
Think we'll start a new thread on places to go! Hope to see you on the road, or next time we cruise thru AZ.

That is the kind of travelling we do. We have been to the big cities and traffic much of our lives. Don't need it. There are lots of better roads and other places to see.

[thoer]

To drag this back to the original question (wow, I'm usually guilty on the other side of that process ) I have a few info bits.

If you are getting any odor, as we were, in the microwave cabinet, pop off the top grey tank vent cap and check the expanding foam seal around the flexible vent pipe. Ours had a small gap in it that I sealed with ProFlex.

The black tank drain connection pipe assembly holds somewhere near 5-6 gallons of water! I was cleaning out our black tank as the tank freshener we have been using for years seems to have not been working. To say the least, it was not pretty in there! What was happening was that that gallon or 2 of water we were putting in the toilet prior to use was just sitting in the drain pipe along with the freshener. From now on, when we are filling our fresh tank upon arrival to a campground, we are going to run water into the toilet until seeing it cover the bottom of the tank, or maybe we'll figure out a timed interval of how long to run water thru the toilet to accomplish that. (When Reace was here fixing the hot water pipe, I joked him that they could change the black tank capacity to that much higher rating.)

The black tank vent is very close to the bathroom top vent. When we have run the stove vent fan and forgotten to slightly open the kitchen or other window, the stove vent pulled black tanks smell in thru the bathroom vent. Keeping that bathroom vent closed when running the kitchen fan solved that.

Reace said that he made the mistake of leaving his MaxxFan on automatic while he was away and with all the windows tightly closed. The weather was hot and the MaxxFan ran most of the day. He said that the seal around either of the toilet model's flush mechanism is not perfect and it pulled black tank odor into the trailer.

All of these problems are easily mitigated when understood, and are actually a testament on how tightly sealed the new model are - new windows, new doors and all holes in the trailer well caulked and sealed.

[Mike Lewis]

Originally Posted by thoer

The black tank drain connection pipe assembly holds somewhere near 5-6 gallons of water!

This. I have an older model trailer which has the same issue/feature. I decided that my initial dose of Odorlos (which normally works pretty well) was going down into that pipe and not really helping the black tank. But I didn't want to give up the extra capacity provided by the drain pipe by filling it with water first. So far I've been adding a second dose of Odorlos when I get the smell again. This seems to help, but there may be more going on here.

[thoer]

Mike, for us, we never even ran out of black tank capacity with our 17B, and with the increased size of the tank in the 21, that pipe capacity loss should never be a problem. What I discovered when cleaning our tank, was that by not filling the pipe, the black tank itself more resembled what used to happen in the days I lived with an outhouse.....if you're old enough to get my analogy!

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by thoer

What I discovered when cleaning our tank, was that by not filling the pipe, the black tank itself more resembled what used to happen in the days I lived with an outhouse.....if you're old enough to get my analogy!

Um, yeah. Kind of like folks who set up at a campground, connect their sewer hose, and open the black tank valve. Uh no, you're doing it wrong. Unless of course you're trying to recreate Mt. Fuji. [emoji6]



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[Losangeles]

Originally Posted by thoer

To drag this back to the original question (wow, I'm usually guilty on the other side of that process ) I have a few info bits.

If you are getting any odor, as we were, in the microwave cabinet, pop off the top grey tank vent cap and check the expanding foam seal around the flexible vent pipe. Ours had a small gap in it that I sealed with ProFlex.

The black tank drain connection pipe assembly holds somewhere near 5-6 gallons of water! I was cleaning out our black tank as the tank freshener we have been using for years seems to have not been working. To say the least, it was not pretty in there! What was happening was that that gallon or 2 of water we were putting in the toilet prior to use was just sitting in the drain pipe along with the freshener. From now on, when we are filling our fresh tank upon arrival to a campground, we are going to run water into the toilet until seeing it cover the bottom of the tank, or maybe we'll figure out a timed interval of how long to run water thru the toilet to accomplish that. (When Reace was here fixing the hot water pipe, I joked him that they could change the black tank capacity to that much higher rating.)

The black tank vent is very close to the bathroom top vent. When we have run the stove vent fan and forgotten to slightly open the kitchen or other window, the stove vent pulled black tanks smell in thru the bathroom vent. Keeping that bathroom vent closed when running the kitchen fan solved that.

Reace said that he made the mistake of leaving his MaxxFan on automatic while he was away and with all the windows tightly closed. The weather was hot and the MaxxFan ran most of the day. He said that the seal around either of the toilet model's flush mechanism is not perfect and it pulled black tank odor into the trailer.

All of these problems are easily mitigated when understood, and are actually a testament on how tightly sealed the new model are - new windows, new doors and all holes in the trailer well caulked and sealed.

Great info - thanks!

[Mountain_gal]

I appreciate everyone's suggestions. I will certainly pay attention to VISIBLE water in the black tank instead of just relying on 4 toilet bowls full after hearing about the design issue.

It maybe something about the vents being close together. We didn't have the problem the whole 4 days that we were dry camping, only after driving. Which does seem like it may be an airflow problem. Of course, all the vents were closed when driving (we use the checklist to make sure). On the way home from camp to our house, the side window worked its way open which would have put 55 mph air inside the trailer with no good way to get out. But it also did it on the short drive to the storage unit when the windows and vents remained properly closed.

I can try to add more clean water to the black tank just before we leave camp to clear out that pipe. The gray water was already 3 lights and I would be afraid to add more there. Other than watching for the shower drain to overflow, does anyone have a good idea of how to tell if another 2 gallons could be run there to flush the lateral pipe?

We were in a national forest and there was no dump facility to use immediately upon our leaving camp, therefore, we have to travel full.

We never had this issue with our 2015 trailer, so I do think that it is something related to the new design. That said, it clears easily with running all the exhaust fans for a few minutes, so it is an inconvenience, not a disaster.

[thoer]

Catherine, the airflow over the open window could actually create a small negative pressure inside the trailer, pulling in some smell. Both drain pipes should all drain when dumping, but putting some water in with some of whatever freshener you use for the drive home can help clean it while you drive. I like to use SimpleGreen cleanser for that.


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[float5]

Are you talking about a pipe running from the tank to the dump valve? If I put two gallons and chemicals in after dumping, how is that not sloshing around in the tank while moving down the road? Has it all immediately gone downhill such that it never comes back into the tank?

And oh, sorry some of us left the subject of sewer stink!

Originally Posted by thoer

To drag this back to the original question (wow, I'm usually guilty on the other side of that process ) I have a few info bits.

If you are getting any odor, as we were, in the microwave cabinet, pop off the top grey tank vent cap and check the expanding foam seal around the flexible vent pipe. Ours had a small gap in it that I sealed with ProFlex.

The black tank drain connection pipe assembly holds somewhere near 5-6 gallons of water! I was cleaning out our black tank as the tank freshener we have been using for years seems to have not been working. To say the least, it was not pretty in there! What was happening was that that gallon or 2 of water we were putting in the toilet prior to use was just sitting in the drain pipe along with the freshener. From now on, when we are filling our fresh tank upon arrival to a campground, we are going to run water into the toilet until seeing it cover the bottom of the tank, or maybe we'll figure out a timed interval of how long to run water thru the toilet to accomplish that. (When Reace was here fixing the hot water pipe, I joked him that they could change the black tank capacity to that much higher rating.)

The black tank vent is very close to the bathroom top vent. When we have run the stove vent fan and forgotten to slightly open the kitchen or other window, the stove vent pulled black tanks smell in thru the bathroom vent. Keeping that bathroom vent closed when running the kitchen fan solved that.

Reace said that he made the mistake of leaving his MaxxFan on automatic while he was away and with all the windows tightly closed. The weather was hot and the MaxxFan ran most of the day. He said that the seal around either of the toilet model's flush mechanism is not perfect and it pulled black tank odor into the trailer.

All of these problems are easily mitigated when understood, and are actually a testament on how tightly sealed the new model are - new windows, new doors and all holes in the trailer well caulked and sealed.

[thoer]

Originally Posted by float5

Are you talking about a pipe running from the tank to the dump valve? If I put two gallons and chemicals in after dumping, how is that not sloshing around in the tank while moving down the road? Has it all immediately gone downhill such that it never comes back into the tank?

And oh, sorry some of us left the subject of sewer stink!

Cathy, I'm not sure, but if that whole drainpipe holds the 5-6 gallons I measured, I don't know if 2 gallons are going to be enough to get back into the black tank and slosh around. Everything out of the black tank to the drain valve would need to run downhill, so I don't know how much would need to be in there to give a good sloshing?

[Mike Lewis]

Originally Posted by thoer

Mike, for us, we never even ran out of black tank capacity with our 17B, and with the increased size of the tank in the 21, that pipe capacity loss should never be a problem. What I discovered when cleaning our tank, was that by not filling the pipe, the black tank itself more resembled what used to happen in the days I lived with an outhouse.....if you're old enough to get my analogy!

Hmm, that's something to consider. On long trips I tend to dump the black tank about once a week. That should be long enough to fill that drain pipe and have liquid in the main part of the tank. Also, Odorlos is supposed to dissolve solids. But I'll keep this in mind if I start having problems with the black tank.

And yeah, Grandpa had an outhouse, a two-holer if I remember correctly. Let me add that he lived in Ohio, to forestall any Southern jokes.

[Lee.Artman]

I installed the Lippert 360 Siphon on my Casita and never had an odor problem. I plan to install on my new 5.0TA.

[float5]

Originally Posted by thoer

Cathy, I'm not sure, but if that whole drainpipe holds the 5-6 gallons I measured, I don't know if 2 gallons are going to be enough to get back into the black tank and slosh around. Everything out of the black tank to the drain valve would need to run downhill, so I don't know how much would need to be in there to give a good sloshing?

I guess it depends upon how many hills you go up and down and how many left turns you take.

So I have to wonder if two gallons, even poured in and then not moving the trailer, will stay there.

Maybe I will add a third gallon.

[thoer]

Cathy - what I did was put water into the toilet 2 gallons at a time from buckets until I saw water staying in the bottom of the black tank. Like I said, for ours it took between 5 and 6 gallons.

[float5]

Originally Posted by thoer

Cathy - what I did was put water into the toilet 2 gallons at a time from buckets until I saw water staying in the bottom of the black tank. Like I said, for ours it took between 5 and 6 gallons.

Okay, well, we would usually be depending upon sloshing from moving but once in a while we might be staying put. We will keep that in mind, adding much more. Thanks!

[Steve Clark]

..........Okay! ENOUGH OF THIS PEE-PIPE TALK!.................Just kidding, I enjoy it!

[Fox hunt]

I'm confused if I pour it into the toilet doesn't it all go into the tank doesn't the drain pipe drain into the tank how does it sit in the pipe why wouldn't it just flow into the tank?

[War Eagle]

Originally Posted by Fox hunt

I'm confused if I pour it into the toilet doesn't it all go into the tank doesn't the drain pipe drain into the tank how does it sit in the pipe why wouldn't it just flow into the tank?

Kate, Bare with me on this, and I'll try to explain. From the toilet bowl flush valve, everything dumps straight into the black tank, so that's not really a pipe, per say. You can look through the flush valve opening and see straight down to the bottom of the black tank. When stetting up camp, that's how we know when we've added enough "slosh" water. Just look down the hole, and there it is. I think what others are talking about is the big diameter (3"?) drain pipe that leads from the bottom of the tank down to the drain valve and coupler for dumping the tank. On the 21', it looks like there is a foot or so of fairly flat pipe coming out of the bottom of the tank, then 6" or so straight drop through the floor, then several feet of sloped pipe leading down the outside to the valve and coupler. So once water goes down the drop pipe and into the sloped pipe under the camper, it would take some pretty good "sloshing" to get any of that to come back up into the tank, and I think that's where the volume of water is going that people are talking about is. I hope that is a fair enough representation of the black tank plumbing and makes sense. Corrections or better explanations are welcome....

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by Fox hunt

I'm confused if I pour it into the toilet doesn't it all go into the tank doesn't the drain pipe drain into the tank how does it sit in the pipe why wouldn't it just flow into the tank?

The 'drain pipe' is at the BOTTOM of the tank. There's no pipe above the tank - just the toilet. The sewer pipe holds alot of liquid.

The longer your sewer pipe is between the tank and the dump valve, the more liquid it takes to fill it before any of the liquid stays in the tank. On a 21, that pipe is much longer for example than it is on our 19, because the bathroom and dump valve locations are further apart. Here's a sketch.