Black Water Leaking to Gray Water

[cpaharley2008]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

I know.

good to know

[Stu]

I contacted ETI about the black and gray water tank vents and was told they are now tied together. I have a 2017 Escape 19. There is only one vent on the roof.

[PM15283]

Originally Posted by jumboscott

Since your on the subject of Black Water, my new trailer leaked 1/2 cup of black water each time between dumping on the way home from ETI. Noticed it when pulling the sewer cap off. I read a small amount of leakage is normal but anything more than a cup and you’ve got a leaky gate valve. I never had any leakage with my Casita.

I had about 5 gallons of black explode from the cap as I removed it! In over 30 years and 4 rvs I've never before had a similar experience.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Stu

I contacted ETI about the black and gray water tank vents and was told they are now tied together.

Good to know.

But for the common vent to be the source of Dee's issue, the connection must be below the black tank liquid level, or have a configuration capable of siphoning... that seems inappropriate for a functioning vent system, but cramming plumbing into an RV is a challenge...

[padlin]

Originally Posted by jumboscott

Since your on the subject of Black Water, my new trailer leaked 1/2 cup of black water each time between dumping on the way home from ETI. Noticed it when pulling the sewer cap off. I read a small amount of leakage is normal but anything more than a cup and you’ve got a leaky gate valve. I never had any leakage with my Casita.

I wouldn't consider it normal or acceptable, I've never had a gate leak. I'd call a repair service and ask them.

[Jim Bennett]

My 5.0TA has a separate vent for each task, the black though the roof and the grey through a cheater vent inside behind the walls.

[EdColorado]

Originally Posted by padlin

I wouldn't consider it normal or acceptable, I've never had a gate leak. I'd call a repair service and ask them.

Agreed. Having owned multiple RV’s, I assure you that a leaking tank is neither normal nor acceptable.
Get the leak fixed.

[Vermilye]

The waste/gate valves should not leak period. They are not terribly difficult to replace, although the plumber's strapping used to hold them in place sure made it a difficult job on my 21.

As to the venting, my 2017 21 had separate vents.

[Bill R]

Originally Posted by Stu

I contacted ETI about the black and gray water tank vents and was told they are now tied together. I have a 2017 Escape 19. There is only one vent on the roof.

Stu is correct. Our 2014 Escape 19 had 2 roof vents, 1 each for gray and black. Our 2018 Escape 19 has 1 roof vent for both gray and black and a very full black tank can overflow into the gray tank, see my post here.

I much prefer gray and black isolated like our 2014.

Bill R

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by Bill R

a very full black tank can overflow into the gray tank, see my post here.

Bill R

Would it not have to overflow at the toilet first? You can open the toilet trap and look down to see what level effluent you have.

[Bill R]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

Would it not have to overflow at the toilet first?

The overflow to gray happened when the water level was into the base of the toilet but below the toilet's sliding valve.

Bill R

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

Would it not have to overflow at the toilet first? You can open the toilet trap and look down to see what level effluent you have.

Apparently the interconnection in the vent piping is very low, presumably just above the top of the black tank.

[SFDavis50]

Since the black tank sits on the floor of the trailer and the grey tank hangs underneath it is possible for the black to drain into the grey if both gate valves are open while the dumping cap is still installed. If the black tank is full and the grey is near full there could be a very bad outcome as the top of the grey tank is lower than the bottom of the black tank.

I have a 5.0TA (2017) and don't have the bathroom sink so I don't think there is a grey tank cheater vent inside the trailer. I can't see any evidence of a drain other than the shower floor and sink drains.

[tdf-texas]

Originally Posted by SFDavis50

Since the black tank sits on the floor of the trailer and the grey tank hangs underneath it is possible for the black to drain into the grey if both gate valves are open while the dumping cap is still installed. If the black tank is full and the grey is near full there could be a very bad outcome as the top of the grey tank is lower than the bottom of the black tank.

I have a 5.0TA (2017) and don't have the bathroom sink so I don't think there is a grey tank cheater vent inside the trailer. I can't see any evidence of a drain other than the shower floor and sink drains.

From what has been discussed, the 2017 models have separate black and grey tank vents. Connecting the black and grey tanks with a crossover so that one vent could be used for both tanks seems to have started in 2018.

Your trailer (and mine) have the separate vents so the only way the black can drain into the grey is that both drain valves were left open with the cap on.

For those with the crossover, if the sink or shower trap does not have water in it - that "unusual" smell coming up is probably not the grey tank.

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by SFDavis50

Since the black tank sits on the floor of the trailer and the grey tank hangs underneath it is possible for the black to drain into the grey if both gate valves are open while the dumping cap is still installed. If the black tank is full and the grey is near full there could be a very bad outcome as the top of the grey tank is lower than the bottom of the black tank. I might be inclined to feel sorry for them when they do remove the drain cap.

I have a 5.0TA (2017) and don't have the bathroom sink so I don't think there is a grey tank cheater vent inside the trailer. I can't see any evidence of a drain other than the shower floor and sink drains.

Not much chance of that scenario happening though. Someone would have to be crazy to set it up.

You will still have the vent for the shower. It comes up about 3' inside the cabinetry on the left side of the bath capped with a cheater (automatic drain) vent. You can tell, as the cabinetry doors do not go within about 4-6" of the bath wall. I should have taken a photo when I had the cabinetry there all torn apart.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

You will still have the vent for the shower. It comes up about 3' inside the cabinetry on the left side of the bath capped with a cheater (automatic drain) vent. You can tell, as the cabinetry doors do not go within about 4-6" of the bath wall. I should have taken a photo when I had the cabinetry there all torn apart.

This thread shows some pictures of the indoor vent arrangement.
http://www.escapeforum.org/forums/f7...lly-11025.html

I really don't want to resurrect this issue, but I have a potential concern on newer trailers given this new tank cross-connection information. From the previous thread about open vent pipes we learned that not all trailers have an air admittance valve (AAV) (and our early 19 is the only one I know of with an outside gray tank overflow in the wheel well). The risk of overflowing gray water into a concealed area was a real possibility according to Reace which I agree with if an open vent pipe top is below the elevation of the sink drains. So with this new cross connection of black and gray tanks combined with no exterior overflow, an open vent pipe with no AAV, and a closed shower drain am I right to say that now you could overflow a black/gray mixture into the cabin via the vent?! If you have the shower drain open now you have a mixture of black/gray water in your shower pan? Something doesn't seem right.

If I were buying a newer trailer I would want a very detailed explanation of how the plumbing is designed. With extended boondocking the overflow of tanks is a real concern. I would hope to hear that all vents go to the roof or if there are any in the cabin that they are not open and are fitted with an AAV. Additionally, I see no good reason to have the tanks interconnected except where they combine outside to leave the trailer at the main outlet connection.

[cpaharley2008]

Try getting that info from Thor on any of their $80k Airstreams.....not. I was very put off with them years ago with customer service, it is what made me go to Escape.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

Try getting that info from Thor on any of their $80k Airstreams.....not. I was very put off with them years ago with customer service, it is what made me go to Escape.

Jim: Maybe I'm misinterpreting, but are you suggesting that Escape shouldn't have to explain how they have designed their plumbing to ensure black and gray water doesn't spill out of a concealed vent within someone's trailer? I know on our 2010 19' it is impossible for it to happen given the design. Why would we expect less from newer trailers? The chance of gray coming in was bad enough. Now black water is another story.

[cpaharley2008]

What I'm saying is Escape gives you so much more info about their units, compared to those really expensive alternatives. As fas as the issue at hand, until I see a trend happening, perhaps a one of a kind mistake or some other issue before drawing conclusions as to what should or not should be made available. I'm sure a simple call to the factory to Dave or Dustin can put the issue at rest.

[MikeS]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

What I'm saying is Escape gives you so much more info about their units, compared to those really expensive alternatives. As fas as the issue at hand, until I see a trend happening, perhaps a one of a kind mistake or some other issue before drawing conclusions as to what should or not should be made available. I'm sure a simple call to the factory to Dave or Dustin can put the issue at rest.

I know from personal experience that both Airstream and Fleetwood will provide full plumbing and electrical schematics to owners. Escape provides neither last I heard.