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Old 05-18-2015, 09:53 PM   #11
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One of the seven wires sending signals from the tow alternator to the trailer charges trailer battery. Heard the (discontinued but readily available) Dometic 11,000 BTU works fine with the Honda 2000i but the bigger 13,500 BTU has the issues. Our Concentrator is a ”Perfecto2.” Interestingly, found no data plate listing its certified electrical stats, AMP draw, etc. The converted Honda does in fact run low pressure, am told. There are two versions of converted Hondas. One is 3-way, propane, natural gas and gasoline but the conversion package is outside the case. It looks vulnerable. The other version is propane/nat gas only, $200 more expensive, made by GenConneX™Direct, but the conversion is inside the case.
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Old 05-18-2015, 11:29 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyronL View Post
One of the seven wires sending signals from the tow alternator to the trailer charges trailer battery. Heard the (discontinued but readily available) Dometic 11,000 BTU works fine with the Honda 2000i but the bigger 13,500 BTU has the issues. Our Concentrator is a ”Perfecto2.” Interestingly, found no data plate listing its certified electrical stats, AMP draw, etc. The converted Honda does in fact run low pressure, am told. There are two versions of converted Hondas. One is 3-way, propane, natural gas and gasoline but the conversion package is outside the case. It looks vulnerable. The other version is propane/nat gas only, $200 more expensive, made by GenConneX™Direct, but the conversion is inside the case.
The manual for the concentrator: http://www.invacare.com/doc_files/1143482.pdf

The manual says says 3A so 360 watts so 30 amp hours per hour @ 12V. (Assuming 120V AC and a perfect inverter.) Conclusion - you need 120V for overnight usage. With most/all campgrounds having quiet hours (no generators) after 10PM you will need to have hookups - so get the A/C and skip the generator.
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Old 05-18-2015, 11:36 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyronL View Post
One of the seven wires sending signals from the tow alternator to the trailer charges trailer battery. Heard the (discontinued but readily available) Dometic 11,000 BTU works fine with the Honda 2000i but the bigger 13,500 BTU has the issues. Our Concentrator is a ”Perfecto2.” Interestingly, found no data plate listing its certified electrical stats, AMP draw, etc. The converted Honda does in fact run low pressure, am told. There are two versions of converted Hondas. One is 3-way, propane, natural gas and gasoline but the conversion package is outside the case. It looks vulnerable. The other version is propane/nat gas only, $200 more expensive, made by GenConneX™Direct, but the conversion is inside the case.
Myron, I also found 3 amps on a site, invacare, as Jamman did. Don't know what your panels put out but maybe that can work. You have a good solar knowledge, more than mine.
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Old 05-19-2015, 08:26 AM   #14
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The manual for the concentrator: http://www.invacare.com/doc_files/1143482.pdf

The manual says says 3A so 360 watts so 30 amp hours per hour @ 12V. (Assuming 120V AC and a perfect inverter.) Conclusion - you need 120V for overnight usage. With most/all campgrounds having quiet hours (no generators) after 10PM you will need to have hookups - so get the A/C and skip the generator.
Myron, hang on a minute. I gave you a worst case scenario. I assumed full power draw the whole time. IF the concentrator cycles, or draws less than rated power, you might be able to make it with your dual 6V batteries and 600W inverter. (Your inverter is true sine wave which is a good idea for medical equipment and is big enough for the concentrator.)

Get a "Kill A Watt" (KaW): P3 P4400 Kill A Watt Electricity Usage Monitor - Low Temperature Alarms - Amazon.com

It can tell you the total KWH used over time. Just before Nancy turns on the concentrator, plug the KaW into the wall and the concentrator into the KaW. In the morning use the KWH/Hour key and write down the total time and KWH used. KaW maual here: http://www.p3international.com/manuals/p4400_manual.pdf

Multiply the KWH by 1000 and divide by 13 - the result will be 12V amp-hours - call it X. (I used 13 instead of 12 to allow for inverter losses.) Since you have the dual 6V batteries you have a max of 232 amp-hours, of which only half are usable if you want decent battery life. Knock off a few more for other things and you have about 100 amp-hours for the concentrator. (Assuming you run a generator every day and can fully recharge the batteries.)

If X is more than 100 you need additional battery capacity or hookups. If X is significantly less than 100 you may be able to recharge with your solar panels alone.

OR - if you are both felling really brave, you could spend a night in the trailer (not plugged into the house) with the concentrator on the inverter and see what happens. (Worse case - the inverter alarms for low battery, you get up and plug the trailer into the house and the concentrator into a non-inverter outlet. Best case - you get a good night's sleep and the batteries are not too low.)

Edit: Corrected a units conversion error.
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Old 05-19-2015, 09:49 AM   #15
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Wow, great stuff, thanks Doug. You are da man. I will look into this further. I just ordered that Kill-a-watt from amazon.

Interesting and unexpected side note on my batteries: After our recent trip, when we returned I emptied the fridge and thought I had shut it down- it had been on battery while towing home - Morningstar and Xantrex showing 12.6v, then went back in two days later to clean up, etc and immediately noticed my Morningstar battery monitor showing 9.5 volts! Yikes! The fridge was still on battery power. How did that happen!??! So, immediately plugged trailer in to shore power from the garage. It took five+ days for the battery to reach 12.7 volts, and a couple days later it seemed stuck at that level. Now I am really worried. I then set up my 100watt solar panels, hoping for a bigger boost. Had a couple days of full sun-- monitor finally went up to 13.1 volts.
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Old 05-19-2015, 12:04 PM   #16
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We have a Kill A Watt and have found it useful for more things. When I get to a campground, I plug it into the campground power to check that it is decent voltage. I had an electrical failure once and used it to help troubleshoot so I always carry it with me on camping trips.
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Old 05-19-2015, 12:26 PM   #17
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Makes sense. I just checked and my trailer battery, on solar, seems to be holding at 13.15 volts on the Morningstar. After a couple cloudy days hoping today's sunshine will get it up higher. Nervous.

The operators manual is 28 pages. Spoke with Concentrator supplier. They will get me one.

Also today, ordered the Dometic 11,000 btu Penguin Low Profile, and the ceiling assembly, from AdventureRV.net ...at $745.92 including shipping and insurance. ()
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Old 05-21-2015, 03:27 PM   #18
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Kill A Watt usage monitor came in the mail today. I immediately plugged the oxygen concentrator in. Amps readings cycled continuously from 2.53 to 2.82 amps.
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Old 05-21-2015, 05:39 PM   #19
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Kill A Watt usage monitor came in the mail today. I immediately plugged the oxygen concentrator in. Amps readings cycled continuously from 2.53 to 2.82 amps.
I am ASSUMING the oxygen is ONLY needed during the night.

For 8 hours you need 2.67 amps (average of 2.53 and 2.82) X 120 volts X 8 hours = 2563 watt hours. Divide by 13 (to allow for inverter losses) = 197 amp hours at 12 volts. This means 4 of the 6V Interstate batteries ETI uses to avoid going below 50% charge. And then you need to charge them up during the day. You will need a generator and a better converter/charger than the WFCO ETI uses to get this done in a reasonable amount of time.

(You COULD get another big 12V battery, and use the truck battery, the new one, and the 2x6V in the trailer to make it one night. Or combine batteries plus oxygen cylinders.)

Realistically, you will probably have to stick to electrical hookup sites for more than 1 night stays.
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Old 05-21-2015, 05:48 PM   #20
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Correct, oxygen (currently) needed only at night. So, I need 197 amp hrs. running overnight. Your calculations very much appreciated, Doug. Well, I'm not going to replace the factory install WFCO. Guess it will be hook-ups for us.
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