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Old 01-16-2019, 12:40 AM   #241
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Your description, Brian, sounds a lot like the technique of holding the steering wheel at the bottom with the palm up. If you want the trailer to move left, you move your hand left. It removes all the thinking between turning the wheel and the action that results.
Sounds like a second steering wheel, and another option that costs money and is probably included in a package that I do want.
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Old 01-16-2019, 07:36 AM   #242
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I was skeptical that mine would work after my brother’s experience. He has a cargo trailer but it has a similar “Y” yoke. He deduced that shade from trees (he has a heavily treed yard) was causing intermittent problems. I placed my sticker on the drivers side of the jack stand. It’s very close to the minimum distance but works. I will post a photo later. Have to go by the storage unit to get a photo.
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Old 01-16-2019, 09:53 AM   #243
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Your description, Brian, sounds a lot like the technique of holding the steering wheel at the bottom with the palm up. If you want the trailer to move left, you move your hand left. It removes all the thinking between turning the wheel and the action that results.
Sounds like a second steering wheel, and another option that costs money and is probably included in a package that I do want.
Hi: baglo... It's probably prone to brake too!!! Alf
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Old 01-16-2019, 10:09 AM   #244
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Originally Posted by gbaglo View Post
Your description, Brian, sounds a lot like the technique of holding the steering wheel at the bottom with the palm up. If you want the trailer to move left, you move your hand left. It removes all the thinking between turning the wheel and the action that results.
Sounds like a second steering wheel, and another option that costs money and is probably included in a package that I do want.

Yes, it’s a bit like doing it manually. But with added bonuses. First, the pro backup system makes it impossible to jack-knife. It keeps track of the angle between the truck and trailer (obviously) and will not allow the two to collide. Secondly, it makes it incredibly easy to straighten the truck and trailer out. Just let go if the little steering knob, which is spring loaded and will pop back to center, then keep going backwards. The system will line the truck up perfectly straight with the trailer. Which is hopefully pointed the direction that you want it to go. This is my favorite feature of this system. Third thing the system simplifies is a little harder to articulate but I’ll try. Normally when starting a turn going backwards I start with a sharpish turn of the wheel and then at a certain point countersteer to keep the truck following the trailer. After doing this umpteen times this is easy and automatic for me, but I remember that once upon a time, learning how to do this maneuver was the tricky part about learning to back up a trailer. Depending on the attitude of truck vs trailer and direction the trailer is going one might need to steer the truck steering wheel and front wheels left or right or both at different points in the same turn. The Pro Backup system simplifies this by taking out all the back and forth, such that you turn the little knob left or right for which way you want the trailer to go and just keep it there (regardless of how the truck is lined up with the trailer), and the truck then makes all the steering and counter steering adjustments automatically to send the trailer in the indicated direction. It’s fun to watch the steering wheel switch from far left to far right all while the trailer maintains a smooth and gentle, consistent turn.

Is it necessary? No. Is it useful? Can be. I can back our Escape up (manually) anywhere without issue, because I’ve done so a lot. We also have a small 4x8 utility trailer, however, which is incredibly squirrelly because of its super short wheelbase vs the long wheelbase of our SuperCrew F150 with 6.5’ bed. Talk about lightning fast in the jack-knife department! Whenever I take a load of stuff to the dump with that trailer, and then have to back it in, I now use the backup assist, because every time I don’t it’s inevitably an embarrassing zig zag in front of the sanitation pro who is guiding me where he or she wants me, followed by me all crooked somewhere hopefully close to where he or she wanted me. But when I use the pro backup system with that little squirrelly thing, I look like...a pro.
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Old 01-16-2019, 11:31 AM   #245
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Yes, it’s a bit like doing it manually.

We also have a small 4x8 utility trailer, however, which is incredibly squirrelly because of its super short wheelbase vs the long wheelbase of our SuperCrew F150 with 6.5’ bed.
Whew, I read Glenn's comment and realized that it was a question that couldn't be answered in just a few words. Fortunately you've nicely answered the question.

I had a short motorcycle trailer that was beyond squirrelly backing up. I'd loved to have had a backup assist for that.

I've been backing up trailers for a very long time and if I didn't have the backup assist on the truck I wouldn't go out of my way to get it. But it's there and I'm not going to ignore the challenge to get it working right. Besides, it's evident that my wife really wants it to work. She wants us to hook up and try it out again today.

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Old 01-16-2019, 01:05 PM   #246
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Yes, it’s a bit like doing it manually. But with added bonuses. First, the pro backup system makes it impossible to jack-knife. It keeps track of the angle between the truck and trailer (obviously) and will not allow the two to collide. Secondly, it makes it incredibly easy to straighten the truck and trailer out. Just let go if the little steering knob, which is spring loaded and will pop back to center, then keep going backwards. The system will line the truck up perfectly straight with the trailer. Which is hopefully pointed the direction that you want it to go. This is my favorite feature of this system. Third thing the system simplifies is a little harder to articulate but I’ll try. Normally when starting a turn going backwards I start with a sharpish turn of the wheel and then at a certain point countersteer to keep the truck following the trailer. After doing this umpteen times this is easy and automatic for me, but I remember that once upon a time, learning how to do this maneuver was the tricky part about learning to back up a trailer. Depending on the attitude of truck vs trailer and direction the trailer is going one might need to steer the truck steering wheel and front wheels left or right or both at different points in the same turn. The Pro Backup system simplifies this by taking out all the back and forth, such that you turn the little knob left or right for which way you want the trailer to go and just keep it there (regardless of how the truck is lined up with the trailer), and the truck then makes all the steering and counter steering adjustments automatically to send the trailer in the indicated direction. It’s fun to watch the steering wheel switch from far left to far right all while the trailer maintains a smooth and gentle, consistent turn.

Is it necessary? No. Is it useful? Can be. I can back our Escape up (manually) anywhere without issue, because I’ve done so a lot. We also have a small 4x8 utility trailer, however, which is incredibly squirrelly because of its super short wheelbase vs the long wheelbase of our SuperCrew F150 with 6.5’ bed. Talk about lightning fast in the jack-knife department! Whenever I take a load of stuff to the dump with that trailer, and then have to back it in, I now use the backup assist, because every time I don’t it’s inevitably an embarrassing zig zag in front of the sanitation pro who is guiding me where he or she wants me, followed by me all crooked somewhere hopefully close to where he or she wanted me. But when I use the pro backup system with that little squirrelly thing, I look like...a pro.
Sounds like if you can master the backup assist , especially not to jack knife , it could be very handy . I noticed you have a 17? So that is a single axle instead of a dual axle . Could that be a different scenario? Do not have a new truck , just asking out of curiosity. Thanks . Pat
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Old 01-16-2019, 03:27 PM   #247
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Here is where I placed my sticker. I even cut it along the seam of the doubler and it had no adverse effect on recognition. Click image for larger version

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Views:	14
Size:	167.4 KB
ID:	36426Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_4919.jpg
Views:	11
Size:	177.1 KB
ID:	36427
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Old 01-16-2019, 03:45 PM   #248
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Your description, Brian, sounds a lot like the technique of holding the steering wheel at the bottom with the palm up. If you want the trailer to move left, you move your hand left. It removes all the thinking between turning the wheel and the action that results.
No, it's a lot more intelligent and easier to use than that... but it does remove some of the challenge. Remember when cars had carburetors, and a choke? There was a manual choke control, then automatic chokes appeared. As long as the automatic choke worked, did anyone really really miss the task of tweaking the fuel/air mixture with the manual choke?

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Sounds like a second steering wheel, and another option that costs money and is probably included in a package that I do want.
Kind of like the way a cruise control is a second accelerator pedal? In both cases, you use it only in appropriate circumstances, and only if you want to.

I do agree that it is frustrating to pay for stuff you don't want because it is a package with a feature which you do want. In this case, since the truck already has the camera, the display, and a steering system which is powered and computer-controlled, the additional cost for the knob and software may be pretty small (depending on the video processing ability included in the base vehicle).
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Old 01-16-2019, 03:50 PM   #249
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I noticed you have a 17? So that is a single axle instead of a dual axle . Could that be a different scenario?
Not really. Tandem axles make the trailer harder to push or pull while turning, and make the path of the trailer a bit less predictable (both because the tires of the two axles fight each other), but otherwise the way they back up is the same. Of course the 17' is shorter than the 19' or 21', so it's more "squirrely".
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Old 01-16-2019, 04:07 PM   #250
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Not really. Tandem axles make the trailer harder to push or pull while turning, and make the path of the trailer a bit less predictable (both because the tires of the two axles fight each other), but otherwise the way they back up is the same. Of course the 17' is shorter than the 19' or 21', so it's more "squirrely".
Thanks Brian . Pat
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Old 01-16-2019, 06:04 PM   #251
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Sounds like if you can master the backup assist , especially not to jack knife , it could be very handy . I noticed you have a 17? So that is a single axle instead of a dual axle . Could that be a different scenario? Do not have a new truck , just asking out of curiosity. Thanks . Pat

We had a 17B but sold it when we got our 19. I keep it on my profile just for historical purposes. As to backing up with one vs two axles, I haven’t really noticed a significant difference, honestly. Our truck is a 2016.
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Old 01-16-2019, 06:50 PM   #252
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Pretty much sums it up. So I tried 3 things to trouble shoot the situation.

I made sure the trailer jack handle was in the "up" position. When down I could see that in a turn to one side that it could obscure the sticker.

I put a piece of cardboard on the front of the propane cover to see if the reflection off the propane cover was a problem. Long shot but it has been a problem for others.

I moved the sticker outboard about 3/4" more so that it would be more visible and not hidden as much by the jack when turning hard to one side.

Bingo, bango, works like a charm. Eliminated the cardboard and it still works. Good enough for me.

Our trailer parking spot involves a zig-zag with a big rhodo beside the truck and the garage behind the trailer. I want the trailer parallel to the fence with enough room to get between it and the fence.

So my wife was dying to try out the back-up assist. She parallel parked with it down the block and was ready to try doing the zig-zag with it back into the parking spot. She started out pretty good but then things went, umm, downhill. She was starting to get a bit frustrated and I walked up to the open window to confirm what she was trying to do. She reached over for the control knob and tweaked it. We both realized at the same time what had happened. While she was watching the mirrors she reached over and turned the knob. Problem was that she was turning the heater control knob which is close and also round.

We had a good laugh about that and then she proceeded to plant the trailer exactly where it was supposed to be.

I'm going to enjoy this feature, needed or not.

Ron
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Old 01-16-2019, 06:53 PM   #253
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We had a 17B but sold it when we got our 19. I keep it on my profile just for historical purposes. As to backing up with one vs two axles, I haven’t really noticed a significant difference, honestly. Our truck is a 2016.
Yup I see you have "Lilly "a 19 . My old eyes missed it at first .mPat
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Old 01-16-2019, 07:11 PM   #254
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Pretty much sums it up. So I tried 3 things to trouble shoot the situation.

I made sure the trailer jack handle was in the "up" position. When down I could see that in a turn to one side that it could obscure the sticker.

I put a piece of cardboard on the front of the propane cover to see if the reflection off the propane cover was a problem. Long shot but it has been a problem for others.

I moved the sticker outboard about 3/4" more so that it would be more visible and not hidden as much by the jack when turning hard to one side.

Bingo, bango, works like a charm. Eliminated the cardboard and it still works. Good enough for me.

Our trailer parking spot involves a zig-zag with a big rhodo beside the truck and the garage behind the trailer. I want the trailer parallel to the fence with enough room to get between it and the fence.

So my wife was dying to try out the back-up assist. She parallel parked with it down the block and was ready to try doing the zig-zag with it back into the parking spot. She started out pretty good but then things went, umm, downhill. She was starting to get a bit frustrated and I walked up to the open window to confirm what she was trying to do. She reached over for the control knob and tweaked it. We both realized at the same time what had happened. While she was watching the mirrors she reached over and turned the knob. Problem was that she was turning the heater control knob which is close and also round.

We had a good laugh about that and then she proceeded to plant the trailer exactly where it was supposed to be.

I'm going to enjoy this feature, needed or not.

Ron
Glad you got it figured out ! I 'd be like you and would have to keep trying until it became clear , just because it's there . Pat
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Old 01-17-2019, 07:43 AM   #255
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Good for you! I found it works really well when backing into our storage unit. Just took a little practice to get the feel of it.
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Old 01-17-2019, 08:43 AM   #256
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I find it kind of funny that this high-tech gizmo depends on the placement of a simple sticker.
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Old 01-17-2019, 11:53 AM   #257
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Good for you! I found it works really well when backing into our storage unit. Just took a little practice to get the feel of it.
Thanks. I think that what's going to take the most getting used to is pointing the trailer straight back and letting it do it's thing without touching the wheel.

Still have to get the blind side assist set-up. Not sure I got the number right but then I haven't been out in traffic with it so I guess I'll just wait. I'm a big user of mirrors so that's not a problem if it's not working correctly.

I'm also happy that the standard mirrors seem fine for visibility.

Ron
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Old 01-17-2019, 01:57 PM   #258
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I find it kind of funny that this high-tech gizmo depends on the placement of a simple sticker.
Right - it's not quite high-tech enough to interpret the image of the trailer tongue reliably without enhancing the object with a sticker. A less high-tech system would require installation of a physical sensor between the trailer and truck to measure angle, so it's good that it has this higher machine-vision-based level of technology.
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Old 01-17-2019, 03:29 PM   #259
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I expect that some day there will be a camera on the back of your vehicle and another that you mount on the back of your trailer. They will connect to a heads up display. You will steer going backward using the steering wheel but it will not be directly connected to the wheels. It will instead tell a computer where you want to go and the computer will sort it all out to steer you like you really want.

With a trailer hooked up, when you put it into reverse it will switch from normal backing to trailer backing. It will be possible to drive backward with a trailer at 40 MPH in perfect comfort and control.

It will be like having an automatic transmission. How many people today can't drive a clutch because they have never had one? Some day people won't be able to back up on their own because they will never have had to. It will become a specialized skill.

This might be a first step in that direction and it may seem of questionable value at the moment but the time will come when we just don't know how we got along without it.

Or maybe they will just outlaw trailers and it will cease to be a problem. I'm not sure which because my crystal ball is in the shop for repair.
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Old 01-17-2019, 04:12 PM   #260
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I expect that some day ....
If you believe all the hype at the Consumer Electronics Show (CES) and extrapolate, future generations won't even want to know how to drive forward much less need to back up. Instead of actually going camping, they will just sit on their rear ends on a sofa in their living room with their virtual reality (VR) headset and a pile of "Real Campfire Smell" scratch-and-sniff pads. Won't even need to check if their propane tanks are full before touching "Start Camping" on their smart device. That will be a very sad day....
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