|
|
04-27-2016, 05:16 PM
|
#41
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: no fixed address, California
Trailer: 2017-21' Escape (sold) Casita 17' (sold)
Posts: 1,348
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patandlinda
Hey no problem sorry if I took it the wrong way . I notice you have a Casita . Nice trailer too I had considered one myself . The Casita does not have the vinyl we have . The condensation is something you are going to have to deal with . That Max fan will be your friend and opening windows . Pat
|
Just curious Pat - do you have the extra insulation in the walls, the thermal Windows, and the underbelly foam?
We are going to get all of these.
I am reading tons of threads here and learning as much as I can.
Yes I can imagine how an ETI with smooth walls would be way more prone to condensate than the rat fur in a casita.
Thanks for your help.
|
|
|
04-27-2016, 05:41 PM
|
#42
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia
Trailer: 2009 Escape 17B 2020 Toyota Highlander XLE
Posts: 17,136
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Losangeles
Yes I can imagine how an ETI with smooth walls would be way more prone to condensate than the rat fur in a casita.
|
And, perhaps the rat fur would be better at accumulating mold spores.
__________________
What happens to the hole when the cheese is gone?
- Bertolt Brecht
|
|
|
04-27-2016, 05:45 PM
|
#43
|
Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Brooks, Alberta
Trailer: Escape 21 Dec 2016
Posts: 33
|
Does anyone know what the actual r-value for the walls, ceiling, and floor are with the extra/foam insulation?
|
|
|
04-27-2016, 05:50 PM
|
#44
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Galesville, Wisconsin
Trailer: 2017 21 "Blue II" & 2017 Highlander XLE (previously 2010 17B "Blue" & 2008 Tacoma)
Posts: 4,234
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tisiphone
Does anyone know what the actual r-value for the walls, ceiling, and floor are with the extra/foam insulation?
|
The last time I talked with Reace about it he said that they were still testing a new insulation material. He said that based on their testing that it may provide nearly twice the real world insulation value of the Reflectix they currently use.
__________________
Eric (and Mary who is in no way responsible for anything stupid I post)
"Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance." George Bernard Shaw
|
|
|
04-27-2016, 05:56 PM
|
#45
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Ventura County, California
Trailer: 2013 19 Escape
Posts: 7,204
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Losangeles
Just curious Pat - do you have the extra insulation in the walls, the thermal Windows, and the underbelly foam?
We are going to get all of these.
I am reading tons of threads here and learning as much as I can.
Yes I can imagine how an ETI with smooth walls would be way more prone to condensate than the rat fur in a casita.
Thanks for your help.
|
Yes We have the extra insulation , dual Windows which are nice because they are tinted and the underbelly foam . I am sure that they all will help . We don't have the heaters underneath trailer . They won't work without 120 . I also bought some more reflex insulation and added where ever I could under dinette , bed , outside compartment which is really under bed . The first night coming from pickup was quite a eye opener . We since have learned the little tricks and we have been able to keep ahead of it . It seems when it is cold and your heater is on, boiling water , showers etc. got to be proactive . We always keep fan running low ,it won't hurt your battery and kitchen window opened . We have a couple of humidifier s that are used in gun safes too. I need to look into some venting though hate cabinets opened . You will be fine as long as you stay on top of it the best you can .oh another idea and it makes your sitting more comfortable , couple pool noodles behind seat cushions helps air circulating behind them . Yeh no rat fur but we have more room . Pat
|
|
|
04-27-2016, 06:02 PM
|
#46
|
Site Team
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Portland, Oregon
Trailer: 2014 Escape 5.0 TA
Posts: 11,051
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Losangeles
Yes I can imagine how an ETI with smooth walls would be way more prone to condensate than the rat fur in a casita.
|
Casitas do NOT have Rat Fur. They have carpet. Scamps have Rat Fur, which is really marine grade headliner material.
Carry on...
__________________
Donna D.
Ten Forward
2014 Escape 5.0TA
|
|
|
04-27-2016, 06:08 PM
|
#47
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia
Trailer: 2009 Escape 17B 2020 Toyota Highlander XLE
Posts: 17,136
|
Without the web, where would I get my misinformation?
__________________
What happens to the hole when the cheese is gone?
- Bertolt Brecht
|
|
|
04-27-2016, 06:20 PM
|
#48
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Ventura County, California
Trailer: 2013 19 Escape
Posts: 7,204
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna D.
Casitas do NOT have Rat Fur. They have carpet. Scamps have Rat Fur, which is really marine grade headliner material.
Carry on...
|
Donna rat fur , carpet just not vinyl . Vinyl is colder . Pat
|
|
|
04-27-2016, 06:22 PM
|
#49
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Ventura County, California
Trailer: 2013 19 Escape
Posts: 7,204
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patandlinda
Yes We have the extra insulation , dual Windows which are nice because they are tinted and the underbelly foam . I am sure that they all will help . We don't have the heaters underneath trailer . They won't work without 120 . I also bought some more reflex insulation and added where ever I could under dinette , bed , outside compartment which is really under bed . The first night coming from pickup was quite a eye opener . We since have learned the little tricks and we have been able to keep ahead of it . It seems when it is cold and your heater is on, boiling water , showers etc. got to be proactive . We always keep fan running low ,it won't hurt your battery and kitchen window opened . We have a couple of humidifier s that are used in gun safes too. I need to look into some venting though hate cabinets opened . You will be fine as long as you stay on top of it the best you can .oh another idea and it makes your sitting more comfortable , couple pool noodles behind seat cushions helps air circulating behind them . Yeh no rat fur but we have more room . Pat
|
Correction carpet not rat fur . Pat
|
|
|
04-27-2016, 06:36 PM
|
#50
|
Site Team
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Portland, Oregon
Trailer: 2014 Escape 5.0 TA
Posts: 11,051
|
It's okay group, just the three manufacturers use different interior solutions. Frankly I like the Rat Fur in my Scamp. It's not cold to the touch when it's cold outside, doesn't hold odors, mildew resistant... but much harder to clean a squished mosquito off the wall than the vinyl in Ten Forward
__________________
Donna D.
Ten Forward
2014 Escape 5.0TA
|
|
|
04-27-2016, 06:39 PM
|
#51
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: no fixed address, California
Trailer: 2017-21' Escape (sold) Casita 17' (sold)
Posts: 1,348
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna D.
Casitas do NOT have Rat Fur. They have carpet. Scamps have Rat Fur, which is really marine grade headliner material.
Carry on...
|
aha... guilty as charged.... carpet in a Casita, not Rat Fur.
My apologies to all Casita owners. On behalf of myself and all of my ancestors, I'd like to apologize for my poor attempt at self deprecating humor.
|
|
|
04-27-2016, 06:48 PM
|
#52
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Ventura County, California
Trailer: 2013 19 Escape
Posts: 7,204
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna D.
It's okay group, just the three manufacturers use different interior solutions. Frankly I like the Rat Fur in my Scamp. It's not cold to the touch when it's cold outside, doesn't hold odors, mildew resistant... but much harder to clean a squished mosquito off the wall than the vinyl in Ten Forward
|
All good . Pat
|
|
|
04-27-2016, 07:20 PM
|
#53
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Trailer: 2015 Escape 19 "Seventy Degrees"
Posts: 3,495
|
I'm more concerned about all those naked lil rats running around Backus, MN.
|
|
|
04-27-2016, 07:32 PM
|
#54
|
Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Box Elder, South Dakota
Trailer: 2014 Escape 21
Posts: 65
|
We full time in our Escape 21. Condensation on the walls and in the upper cabinets is the biggest issue in colder weather. Like most full timers we head to warmer climates in the winter, but, you will eventually be places (southern California, for example) where the night time temperatures dip near / below freezing and the humidity is relatively high (like when it is raining). As others previously mentioned, in those conditions we have to have all the cabinet doors open, cushions pulled away from the walls, and crack the vent and a window to keep the condensation under control. We also run a small dehumidifier when we have electricity. Every little bit helps, but, we still end up wiping up condensation in a few places every morning while the cold weather lasts.
We have not modified the trailer to be full timing, but, we did get the extra insulation package, double pane windows, and under body spray insulation. The extra insulation on our year trailer consists of a layer of Reflectix between the foam backed vinyl headliner and the fiberglass shell. If you go to Reflectix manufacturer's website you find that they give the R value for this product without an air gap (as it is in the Escape) of R1.1. That means not very much. Where the Reflectix is used by itself (providing an air gap of sorts), such as under the benches, the insulating value can be higher, although calculating an effective R value is very case specific, so, the manufacturer will not quote one. Be that as it may, any and all insulation is good, just don't expect a cozy warm cabin in very cold weather. This is not a four season trailer. Comfort is entirely dependent on supplied heat. So far, we have found that the propane furnace is quite capable of keeping the Escape comfortable in the climate we have wintered in. The lowest temperature we have encountered was 24F, but, that was the night time low with the daytime high in the 50's. We did discover that when the temperature went below the mid 40's our 1500W electric heater could not keep up and the temperature inside would gradually drop down during the night. For cold nights we have taken to supplementing the electric heater (when we have hookups) with the propane furnace.
At the other end of the spectrum, we move north to avoid the crazy heat of summer. The highest temperatures we have been into are the mid 90's. The air conditioner handles that weather without difficulty. Of course, that requires electrical hookups (I dislike generators). More effective is to stay out of that kind of weather by moving north / up in elevation. Moving to where the weather is agreeable allows spending more time outside. We find that in warm weather the available ventilation with windows and door open to be quite effective in keeping the interior comfortable.
One challenge we have had with the Escape 21 for full timing is overall weight. The GVWR for the trailer is 4600lb. We found ourselves over that so easily because of the amount of storage space available. Especially the huge cave underneath the bed. If you are good at packing stuff in there you can go over the trailer weight rating very quickly. We did (and I always travel with the fresh water tank empty). When you need to pack everything for living year round, it is really easy to have too much stuff. We had to really cut down. Of course, that turned out to be a good thing in the long run. Now the under bed storage area is mostly empty.
Most of the people we talk to at RV parks think we are crazy to be full timing in such a small trailer, but, we find it to work just fine for us. We do spend quite a bit of time outdoors under the awning. The awning adds quite a bit of living space. Since we use our mobility to stay where the climate is agreeable regardless of the time of year, this works out quite well.
|
|
|
04-27-2016, 07:59 PM
|
#55
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia
Trailer: 2009 Escape 17B 2020 Toyota Highlander XLE
Posts: 17,136
|
Excellent, informative report.
__________________
What happens to the hole when the cheese is gone?
- Bertolt Brecht
|
|
|
04-27-2016, 08:27 PM
|
#56
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: no fixed address, California
Trailer: 2017-21' Escape (sold) Casita 17' (sold)
Posts: 1,348
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by keager
We full time in our Escape 21. Condensation on the walls and in the upper cabinets is the biggest issue in colder weather. Like most full timers we head to warmer climates in the winter, but, you will eventually be places (southern California, for example) where the night time temperatures dip near / below freezing and the humidity is relatively high (like when it is raining). As others previously mentioned, in those conditions we have to have all the cabinet doors open, cushions pulled away from the walls, and crack the vent and a window to keep the condensation under control. We also run a small dehumidifier when we have electricity. Every little bit helps, but, we still end up wiping up condensation in a few places every morning while the cold weather lasts.
We have not modified the trailer to be full timing, but, we did get the extra insulation package, double pane windows, and under body spray insulation. The extra insulation on our year trailer consists of a layer of Reflectix between the foam backed vinyl headliner and the fiberglass shell. If you go to Reflectix manufacturer's website you find that they give the R value for this product without an air gap (as it is in the Escape) of R1.1. That means not very much. Where the Reflectix is used by itself (providing an air gap of sorts), such as under the benches, the insulating value can be higher, although calculating an effective R value is very case specific, so, the manufacturer will not quote one. Be that as it may, any and all insulation is good, just don't expect a cozy warm cabin in very cold weather. This is not a four season trailer. Comfort is entirely dependent on supplied heat. So far, we have found that the propane furnace is quite capable of keeping the Escape comfortable in the climate we have wintered in. The lowest temperature we have encountered was 24F, but, that was the night time low with the daytime high in the 50's. We did discover that when the temperature went below the mid 40's our 1500W electric heater could not keep up and the temperature inside would gradually drop down during the night. For cold nights we have taken to supplementing the electric heater (when we have hookups) with the propane furnace.
At the other end of the spectrum, we move north to avoid the crazy heat of summer. The highest temperatures we have been into are the mid 90's. The air conditioner handles that weather without difficulty. Of course, that requires electrical hookups (I dislike generators). More effective is to stay out of that kind of weather by moving north / up in elevation. Moving to where the weather is agreeable allows spending more time outside. We find that in warm weather the available ventilation with windows and door open to be quite effective in keeping the interior comfortable.
One challenge we have had with the Escape 21 for full timing is overall weight. The GVWR for the trailer is 4600lb. We found ourselves over that so easily because of the amount of storage space available. Especially the huge cave underneath the bed. If you are good at packing stuff in there you can go over the trailer weight rating very quickly. We did (and I always travel with the fresh water tank empty). When you need to pack everything for living year round, it is really easy to have too much stuff. We had to really cut down. Of course, that turned out to be a good thing in the long run. Now the under bed storage area is mostly empty.
Most of the people we talk to at RV parks think we are crazy to be full timing in such a small trailer, but, we find it to work just fine for us. We do spend quite a bit of time outdoors under the awning. The awning adds quite a bit of living space. Since we use our mobility to stay where the climate is agreeable regardless of the time of year, this works out quite well.
|
excellent report
so sorry about your condensation issues.
we have not submitted our build sheet... we like to boondock in all 4 seasons..... including snow overnight at high elevations...
anyone have any condensation reduction tips - add ons - for things to add to our build sheet for our 2017 21'?
thanks
|
|
|
04-27-2016, 08:50 PM
|
#57
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia
Trailer: 2009 Escape 17B 2020 Toyota Highlander XLE
Posts: 17,136
|
Ventilation is the answer.
Alternatively, one can stop breathing, since we all breath out water vapor and that's the main cause.
One web source says we exhale 0.35 litres a day or .73 pints. Two people and a large dog is a lot of water.
__________________
What happens to the hole when the cheese is gone?
- Bertolt Brecht
|
|
|
04-27-2016, 09:06 PM
|
#58
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: paso robles, California
Trailer: ex Casita/ 2016 Escape 21 '16 TRD 4x4
Posts: 132
|
from the Casita Travel Trailer Forum: "You'll be amused to know we call it "rat fur". "
|
|
|
04-27-2016, 09:18 PM
|
#59
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Trailer: 2015 Escape 19 "Seventy Degrees"
Posts: 3,495
|
Didn't Casita use rat fur for quite awhile, and then a few years ago go back to carpet? May just have never updated the website.
|
|
|
04-27-2016, 09:20 PM
|
#60
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: SLO County, California
Trailer: 2014 Escape 21C 2019 Expedition
Posts: 5,213
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by keager
We full time in our Escape 21.
We have not modified the trailer to be full timing, but, we did get the extra insulation package, double pane windows, and under body spray insulation. The extra insulation on our year trailer consists of a layer of Reflectix between the foam backed vinyl headliner and the fiberglass shell. If you go to Reflectix manufacturer's website you find that they give the R value for this product without an air gap (as it is in the Escape) of R1.1. That means not very much. Where the Reflectix is used by itself (providing an air gap of sorts), such as under the benches, the insulating value can be higher, although calculating an effective R value is very case specific, so, the manufacturer will not quote one. Be that as it may, any and all insulation is good, just don't expect a cozy warm cabin in very cold weather. This is not a four season trailer. Comfort is entirely dependent on supplied heat. So far, we have found that the propane furnace is quite capable of keeping the Escape comfortable in the climate we have wintered in. In warm weather the available ventilation with windows and door open to be quite effective in keeping the interior comfortable.
One challenge we have had with the Escape 21 for full timing is overall weight. The GVWR for the trailer is 4600lb. We found ourselves over that so easily because of the amount of storage space available. Especially the huge cave underneath the bed. If you are good at packing stuff in there you can go over the trailer weight rating very quickly. We did (and I always travel with the fresh water tank empty). When you need to pack everything for living year round, it is really easy to have too much stuff. We had to really cut down. Of course, that turned out to be a good thing in the long run. Now the under bed storage area is mostly empty.
|
Hi Bill & Giselle- am admiring your full-time status; a month straight is all we've managed so far. Question- given the above experience would you say the extra $$ is worth it for the Thermal Package?
How is the 4Runner working for you? If you had a 1/2 ton would you still need to pack like an astronaut?
|
|
|
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
» Recent Discussions |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|