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05-10-2017, 07:26 AM
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#21
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Trailer: 2017 Escape 5.0 TA
Posts: 15,544
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008
This is another reason why when installing my electric wall mount heaters, I always use the lower watt models, 750 vs 1500 watts in order not to overload a circuit inside the trailer and to save some reserve for other electrical uses. These electric heaters supplement my propane furnace and are not used 'in lieu of" the furnace.
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I just added another circuit dedicated to my electric heater. I would not want to risk it on another circuit, even though I can set it at 800W or 1600W, if I was to plug in a kettle, or Lisa was to use her blow dryer, it would overload an existing circuit right away if the heater is on. I did rough in a dedicated circuit to the galley should it prove to be needed, I will then wire it in too.
As it is, there are only two plug circuits, in the 5.0TA at least. One has the two dinette, the exterior and the galley plugs on it. The other the loft, entry and microwave plugs on it. This really should not be a problem though, unless one was to go crazy with electrical appliances.
__________________
2017 Escape 5.0 TA
2015 Ford F150 Lariat 3.5L EcoBoost
2009 Escape 19 (previous)
“Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.” — Abraham Lincoln
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05-10-2017, 07:55 AM
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#22
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: North of Danbury, Wisconsin
Trailer: 2018 Escape 21C
Posts: 3,033
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bennett
I just added another circuit dedicated to my electric heater. I would not want to risk it on another circuit, even though I can set it at 800W or 1600W, if I was to plug in a kettle, or Lisa was to use her blow dryer, it would overload an existing circuit right away if the heater is on. I did rough in a dedicated circuit to the galley should it prove to be needed, I will then wire it in too.
As it is, there are only two plug circuits, in the 5.0TA at least. One has the two dinette, the exterior and the galley plugs on it. The other the loft, entry and microwave plugs on it. This really should not be a problem though, unless one was to go crazy with electrical appliances.
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The rating of a single fixed appliance shall not exceed 50 % of the branch circuit rating when also feeding other general purpose loads
A fixed / built in 1440 watt electric heater would require it's own separate 15 amp circuit.
Since fixed / permanent electric heat is considered a continuos load , you would limit the circuit current / circuit breaker to 80% of its rating.
A 15 amp circuit would be limited to 80% or 12 amps when used with a continuos load
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05-10-2017, 09:26 AM
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#23
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Trailer: 2017 Escape 5.0 TA
Posts: 15,544
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve dunham
Since fixed / permanent electric heat is considered a continuos load , you would limit the circuit current / circuit breaker to 80% of its rating.
A 15 amp circuit would be limited to 80% or 12 amps when used with a continuos load
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It used to be you used a breaker with an additional 25% capacity over the rated load, which is equivalent to using a load of 80% of the breaker rating, but now when the circuit breaker is listed for operation at 100% of its rating, the additional 25% requirement goes away.
__________________
2017 Escape 5.0 TA
2015 Ford F150 Lariat 3.5L EcoBoost
2009 Escape 19 (previous)
“Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.” — Abraham Lincoln
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05-10-2017, 09:50 AM
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#24
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: North of Danbury, Wisconsin
Trailer: 2018 Escape 21C
Posts: 3,033
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bennett
It used to be you used a breaker with an additional 25% capacity over the rated load, which is equivalent to using a load of 80% of the breaker rating, but now when the circuit breaker is listed for operation at 100% of its rating, the additional 25% requirement goes away.
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According to the NEC Art #424 ( Electric heat) the ampacity of the branch circuit conductors and the overcurrent protection device shall not be rated less than 125% of the total load of the heating elements and blower motor.
Best trade practice is to never load any conductor or overcurrent device at more than 80% of its' rating especially with continuous loads . In my 40 years as an electrician I never went beyond 80% on any continuous load . The heat generated by loading breaker to 100% causes the thermal portion of the breaker causing it to trip or fail.
There are a lot of things that electricians do in normal practice that exceed the code because we have learned that it leads to problems
Not trying to argue with you but just relaying my experience.
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05-10-2017, 09:50 AM
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#25
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Benton County, Iowa
Trailer: 2013 Escape 21 Classic Number 6, pulled by 2018 Toyota Highlander
Posts: 8,255
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Wiring
You Can't Always Wire What You Want
I posted to avoid a demonstration
I hoped there wouldn't be much abuse
But they all typed of their frustration
And warned me you're gonna blow a 50-amp fuse
With apologies to The Rolling Stones
Rainy days and Wednesdays always get me down
Dave
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05-10-2017, 09:57 AM
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#26
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Trailer: 2017 Escape 5.0 TA
Posts: 15,544
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve dunham
Not trying to argue with you but just relaying my experience.
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Yeah, me too. We just went over this on a job site with the inspector about a year or so ago. You Americans may be behind the times.
__________________
2017 Escape 5.0 TA
2015 Ford F150 Lariat 3.5L EcoBoost
2009 Escape 19 (previous)
“Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.” — Abraham Lincoln
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05-10-2017, 09:59 AM
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#27
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Trailer: 2017 Escape 5.0 TA
Posts: 15,544
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iowa Dave
You Can't Always Wire What You Want
I posted to avoid a demonstration
I hoped there wouldn't be much abuse
But they all typed of their frustration
And warned me you're gonna blow a 50-amp fuse
With apologies to The Rolling Stones
Rainy days and Wednesdays always get me down
Dave
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Thanks for the earworm, Dave. I take off now with a great song in my head.
__________________
2017 Escape 5.0 TA
2015 Ford F150 Lariat 3.5L EcoBoost
2009 Escape 19 (previous)
“Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.” — Abraham Lincoln
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05-10-2017, 11:00 AM
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#28
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: North of Danbury, Wisconsin
Trailer: 2018 Escape 21C
Posts: 3,033
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bennett
Yeah, me too. We just went over this on a job site with the inspector about a year or so ago. You Americans may be behind the times.
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It's the same thing with receptacles in a cabinet.
The CSA has numerous restrictions where the NEC does not .
I've put receptacles in cabinets and appliance garages all the time.
I believe that is the reason ETI refuses to install them because the CSA requires a door switch to control the receptacle so it is only energized when the door is open ( Plus there are numerous other restrictions and exceptions)
Years ago FPE breakers lost their UL listing in the USA so if we needed FPE breakers we ordered them out of Thunder Bay , Ontario , Canada where they were still legal.
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05-10-2017, 12:06 PM
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#29
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox hunt
Why would you need a separate plug to use your dehumidifier I just use a 15 adapter and use my 30 plug.
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If I were setting this up, I would use the normal inlet as well. Aside from outlet location issues, someone may want to ensure that nothing else is powered on while the trailer is in storage, but since this is just a once annual procedure I would just shut off all the other breakers to achieve the same effect.
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05-10-2017, 12:51 PM
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#30
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Trailer: 2017 Escape 5.0 TA
Posts: 15,544
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve dunham
It's the same thing with receptacles in a cabinet.
The CSA has numerous restrictions where the NEC does not .
I've put receptacles in cabinets and appliance garages all the time.
I believe that is the reason ETI refuses to install them because the CSA requires a door switch to control the receptacle so it is only energized when the door is open ( Plus there are numerous other restrictions and exceptions)
Years ago FPE breakers lost their UL listing in the USA so if we needed FPE breakers we ordered them out of Thunder Bay , Ontario , Canada where they were still legal.
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No plugs in a cabinet unless they are a dedicated appliance plug. Same for a closet, but if you call a larger walk-in a dressing room, then it is okay.
If they never sold FPE Stab-lok breakers, there would be a huge cost to homeowners, as 90% of panels installed in the 60's and 70's, and even beyond used them.
__________________
2017 Escape 5.0 TA
2015 Ford F150 Lariat 3.5L EcoBoost
2009 Escape 19 (previous)
“Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.” — Abraham Lincoln
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