Different Tire Width on Escape 21

[MyronL]

?? Placque is not that specific. Here's what I got, Jim.

[cpaharley2008]

Got it, so you have about 500# accessories to get from 2610 dry to 3010 leaving 980 as the remainder for cargo.

[MyronL]

And I have since added an air conditioner and a tongue box.

[cpaharley2008]

So my question is, since both 21 and 19 have the same frame and same wheels (axles not sure)
why would not the capacity be the same for both?

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by MyronL

My tire guy gave me the choice of 8-ply or 4-ply tires. The replaced factory tires were 4-ply (after 22,000 miles). He said the trailer makers were switching to the 8-ply tire. Wondering now if Escape is making that switch.

It's too bad so many people still use those "ply" numbers. There really are layers of reinforcing cord in tires, which is what the plies are supposed to be, but there are not four or eight of them in these tires. Those numbers are "ply ratings", referring to the number of plies your great-grandfather's tires might have had to reach the same load capacity. Your actual tires might have two sidewall plies, plus a couple more under the tread. The original "4-ply" (actually Load Range C) and new "8-ply" (actually Load Range D) tires may have the same number of plies; the higher-rated ones might have one more sidewall ply at the most.

Proper terminology is the Load Range...

• Load Range A

  2-ply rating
  (typical max inflation pressure 24 psi)
  about 1170 lb capacity for ST205/75R15
  long obsolete

• Load Range B

  4-ply rating
  (typical max inflation pressure 35 psi)
  1480 lb capacity for ST205/75R15
  typical car tires
  equivalent to SL (Standard Load) in passenger and euro-metric types

• Load Range C

  6-ply rating
  (typical max inflation pressure 50 psi)
  1820 lb capacity for ST205/75R15
  lowest commonly used on trailers
  equivalent to XL (Extra Load) in passenger and euro-metric types

• Load Range D

  8-ply rating
  (typical max inflation pressure 65 psi)
  2150 lb capacity for ST205/75R15

• Load Range E

  10-ply rating
  (typical max inflation pressure 80 psi)
  probably 2400 to 2500 lb capacity for ST205/75R15 if you could find one

Escape uses (last I saw) Load Range C. In the size they're using, this range of tires has 3640 pounds of capacity per axle, and the highest-rated axles used in any Escape model (the 17' and 5.0TA) are rated for 3500 pounds... and you can't put that much load on the axle anyway without exceeding the trailer's GVWR (massively in the case of the 5.0TA). Other models have lower axle ratings, so their tires have even more excess capacity. Load Range C is correct for any Escape.

Load Range D tires will be heavier, and more expensive, and will cause more drag and heat buildup due to the excessive sidewall reinforcement. You can use them, but anyone talks you into them they either don't understand what they're talking about, or they're just trying to upsell you to a more expensive product.

I hope Escape is not planning to switch to a higher than appropriate load range of tire.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

So my question is, since both 21 and 19 have the same frame and same wheels (axles not sure) why would not the capacity be the same for both?

They have the same series of axle (Dexter Torflex #10), but with different amounts of rubber to set the springing to an appropriate level for each trailer, resulting in different axle capacities. The GVWR is related to the total axle capacity. The tires are not the limiting factor in load capacity for any model of Escape.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by MyronL

Just checked my trailer specs nameplate. It's a 19 all right. Tongue weight, 396 pounds, GVW 4,008 pounds, cargo capacity 981 pounds. Interesting thing is the plaque claims it requires a Class 3 hitch.

The hitch notation is correct. The limit for Class 2 is 3500 pounds of total trailer weight, but the Escape 19' can be loaded up to 4008 pounds (GVWR), so if you are to be able to use the full trailer capacity you need a hitch rated for at least 4008 pounds... which is Class 3 because it is more than 3500 pounds (and not more than 5000 pounds).

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by MyronL

Just checked my trailer specs nameplate. It's a 19 all right. Tongue weight, 396 pounds, GVW 4,008 pounds, cargo capacity 981 pounds. Interesting thing is the plaque claims it requires a Class 3 hitch.

Myron , 396.83 tongue weight , 4008 gross weight , 740.75 carrying capacity . We got the ac from the beginning . Pat and front box

[Brian B-P]

Tire trivia:
If one chose to use the larger ST225/75R15 tire size (which fits, as we have accidentally seen), then they would only need to be Load Range B (capacity at 35 psi = 1760 pounds) to have excess capacity for any of the tandem axle Escapes. I'm not suggesting anyone actually do that...

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

Got it, so you have about 500# accessories to get from 2610 dry to 3010 leaving 980 as the remainder for cargo.

Yes (except that would be 400 pounds of options)... but that's for cargo and fluids. RVs made under RVIA rules in the U.S. (as most are) had a sticker which shows how much actual cargo capacity is left after allowing for full fresh water tank and water heater; apparently this might have ended a few years ago, leaving only the calculation Escape is showing in this example.

For instance, with the listed 28 US gallon fresh water tank and 6 US gallon water heater of a pre-2017 19' or 21', that's 272 pounds of water. Then there's 40 pounds of propane, so the real Cargo Carrying Capacity is
980 - 272 -40
=668 pounds
(unless Escape already included the propane in their calculation)

Not everyone travels with a full tank (or equivalent distributed between fresh and waste tanks), but the typical practice was (but may be no longer) to calculate allowing for this. Regardless of the rules for labels, it's good to remember you don't really have enough capacity for a full water tank plus a half-ton of "essentials".

[Marry]

Originally Posted by MyronL

Just checked my trailer specs nameplate. It's a 19 all right. Tongue weight, 396 pounds, GVW 4,008 pounds, cargo capacity 981 pounds. Interesting thing is the plaque claims it requires a Class 3 hitch.

Why does the tongue weight differ so much from the dry tongue weight of 256?
Any recommendations for keeping the tongue weight under 350? (19' with storage box and dual battery)

[Ron in BC]

Interesting discrepancy in labels. It looks like about 80 lbs. difference between Klems and Myrons trailers for cargo capacity.

Maybe the number's fluid as they make changes.

Ron

[cpaharley2008]

Perhaps with a full tank of fresh and perhaps one empty propane may get you 350, you need to get one of these and try different combo's http://www.amazon.com/Sherline-LM-10...sherline+scale
What is your tow vehicle spec's?

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

Maybe the number's fluid as they make changes.

Quite likely as they make changes to standard items. I am real curious to see how heavy the new ones are out of the new moulds. Shoulda checked in Osoyoos.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Ron in BC

Interesting discrepancy in labels. It looks like about 80 lbs. difference between Klems and Myrons trailers for cargo capacity.

Maybe the number's fluid as they make changes.

38 kg according to the labels, but they're not identically equipped. The sheets (posted by both Klem and Myron) don't show how they are equipped for batteries, cargo box, or solar panels, but even if all of those are identical Myron has an additional microwave oven, yet has the lower trailer weight (higher cargo capacity). I suspect other equipment differences.

It would be nice to get a build sheet showing all options with their weights and contribution to tongue weight, but to be fair I don't have anything like that for any of the RVs I've owned.

[Brian B-P]

We're a long way from "different tire width on an Escape 21".

Originally Posted by Marry

Why does the tongue weight differ so much from the dry tongue weight of 256?

Filling propane tanks would account for 40 pounds of that difference. There are potentially also a larger battery or dual batteries (tongue-mounted in this 19' model), a power tongue jack, and options in the interior ahead of the axle.

Originally Posted by Marry

Any recommendations for keeping the tongue weight under 350? (19' with storage box and dual battery)

You could skip the dual batteries and/or relocate the battery or batteries to further from the front (e.g. under the front dinette seat immediately in front of the door). Keeping the tongue weight of a 19' under 350 pounds yet maintaining good balance and stability will not be trivial, especially with a 40-pound box containing a bunch of stuff sitting on the tongue. (I have considered this for our van).

[cpaharley2008]

I'm aware that on certain truck camper websites that the weight of accessories are shown as the weight of a truck camper seems to be more critical than for travel trailers.

[Ron in BC]

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

38 kg according to the labels, but they're not identically equipped. T.

I have Klems' cargo capacity at 407 kg./895 lbs. and Myrons' at 445 kg./979 lbs., an 84 lb. difference.

So maybe the label is updated year-to-year. Not too much difference but anyone cutting it close, really close might want to check their label.

Ron

[gbaglo]

Maybe one trailer contains more angst than the other.

[fudge_brownie]

Imagine my surprise at finding an email this AM from Reace asking about my mismatched tires. We exchanged information and before I started eating my lunch I had a recommendation to change out the oversized tires, not with urgency, but at my convenience. Once completed I was to send a copy of the invoice to Escape for reimbursement.

It appears that these discontinued tires somehow got into the tire system and were applied by mistake. I checked and the ST225 R75/15 had a born on date of week 36 in 2012. I was able to get one date on the other tires. (Have you tried to read tire dates on the inner sidewall wall, I like to think of myself as fairly flexible, but it was not fun). That had a date of week 4 in 2014 and corresponds more with my build date.

Escape also apologized for for any inconvenience.

I was surprised and at the same time pleased. I should not have been surprised. There has been numerous mention on these pages of similar events when Escape has gone above and beyond what is necessary to resolve a problem. I call it a problem for lack of a better word, it was the classic example of an issue being posted on the forum and members joining in with suggestions. Thank you for the numerous replies and thank you to Escape for being so attentive.