Drymesh or hypervent under matress

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Minnie

Ours came from the same company via Canada Post - without request - and no extra charge. The yarn company in WA I use ships by USPS/Canada Post but they still collect duty. Maybe this company just got caught not doing what it's supposed to do!

My guess is that they all do what they are required to do by law, which is collect all duties and taxes.

The "brokerage fee" is not a duty, not a tax, and not government-imposed at all. Everyone commercially carrying goods across the border fills out "paperwork" (not necessarily on paper) on behalf of the owner of the goods - they act as a broker. The difference is that the post offices include this few seconds of effort in their shipping fee, while the courier companies expend no more effort but charge about $40.

Originally Posted by Minnie

I hate it when companies aren't up front about what it will cost in total.

This is one of my pet peeves. Most U.S. suppliers claim that they do not know what the courier may charge the recipient, so they neither list or even mention it, and claim no responsibility when the shipping company which they chose charges the customer more than the supplier promised it would cost. This is usually all covered, of course, in the fine print.

In this case, I created a dummy online order for DryMesh, and the last screen I get before I must stop because I am not supplying real shipping info or a credit card has a quoted shipping cost of $17.50, for the same US$87.45 total as dglasrud... with no qualifications, no notes, no shipping info page. I wouldn't purchase anything from these people, but then I have little tolerance for either dishonesty or extreme incompetence (and of course I don't know which this is), and I know to watch for the brokerage fee scam.

I have no opinion on the product, and apparently never will.

[Donna D.]

Brokerage fee scam? You folks are trying to blame the wrong group. I work for an international transportation company and this is a HUGE PITA. Shipping companies aren't brokerage companies and brokerage companies aren't shipping companies. Product cannot cross into another country without going through brokerage. My company, which ships many tons of freight internationally a day, has to deal with brokerage firms. Because of international currency, there is no set fee. Dollars flux internationally on an hourly basis. WE pay whatever the brokerage "fee" is and then need to pass it along to the consumer. Just like US buyers of Escape trailers, companies that ship internationally look to see what the dollar exchange is at any even time and adjust invoicing accordingly. But, we have an entire staffed department that does that. It's doubtful a "small" business would even want to dedicate one employee to the task. It's neither dishonest nor extreme incompetence. Perhaps it would be best to say the brokerage fee for international shipping is a range such as $50-$100.

[gbaglo]

For me it comes down to this: if the U.S. based company is going to ship UPS then I won't make the purchase. If they will ship USPS ( and Canada Post ), I will buy it because I don't get dinged brokerage. Matters not to me who is to blame for the fee.

[Donna D.]

One big reason companies use UPS and FedEx, is they pickup at the customers location. If a company is shipping a skid of product (many boxes goes to many customers), USPS expects the product to be delivered to the post office for shipping. We ship letters via USPS, everything else goes common carrier. The other problem is postal services have size and weight limitations. For instance, I know the case awning I ordered for my Scamp needed to be shipped truck freight.

[daveandsandyclink]

I don't feel the love here. Spend your money in Canada or pay what it takes to get it imported from the US to your door step. But don't bash the business that supplies you with cheaper goods than you can buy in Canada and charges no sales tax.

[cpaharley2008]

Let's all be in tune that we have 2 different countries involved and each has their own attributes with out casting aspersions.

[Donna D.]

I can understand a consumer's frustration. I too am a consumer. I'm just attempting to point out the reasons things are the way they are. The United States Postal Service makes it difficult for companies to do business with them. Where UPS and FedEx bend over backwards to get the business. We receive skids and skids of free packing boxes and Tyvek envelopes from FedEx every month to ship product. The only thing USPS gives us is grief. If I was a business owner who shipped lots of product daily, I sure wouldn't want to deal with the USPS. YMMV

[Dave Walter]

Fact of the matter is that some companies (UPS in particular) charge exorbitant customs brokerage fees for shipping packages from the USA to Canada. These fees are usually hidden to the purchaser who will have no idea as to their magnitude until the package is held for ransom until those fees are paid. There are many Canadians who have experienced this. I personally have declined to shop at many USA online stores if all details regarding shipping costs and customs brokerage fees are not clearly indicated. Those businesses that include brokerage fees in their shipping costs ( and there are some out there) or who are willing to ship via methods that result in reasonable costs to the buyer will get my business. Others will not.

[Donna D.]

Y'all might want to bookmark this UPS site dealing with brokerage fees, duty and Customs Clearance: UPS: Rates for Customs Clearance into Canada

[MyronL]

Personally, when I buy from an out of country supplier my favorite is Nigeria, (great guys, all have uncles at the National Bank) but Chechnya is getting to be a close second. Just yesterday I ordered something - got quick promise of quick shipment. All I had to do was send them a "good faith" money order or a cashiers' check first. In contrast, when China ships me the wrong item they don't even respond to my complaints, but ok, that might be because the email address listed always comes back address unknown.

[cpaharley2008]

Very funny Myron, but true….

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

Let's all be in tune that we have 2 different countries involved and each has their own attributes with out casting aspersions.

Two fine countries - nothing wrong with either one. This about business practices taking advantage of the border, not about the governments, the people who live in those countries, or the people on either side who run the border services.

Originally Posted by Donna D.

It's neither dishonest nor extreme incompetence..

Let's assume that the brokerage fee is legitimate:

• A company which routinely ships across the border and does not know about the brokerage fee is clearly incompetent. Donna works in this business, and as a competent professional is aware of this fee.
• A company which routinely ships across the border, does know about the brokerage fee, and fails to disclose it is obviously less than honest. I'm sure Donna's company discloses this fee.

Originally Posted by Donna D.

Shipping companies aren't brokerage companies and brokerage companies aren't shipping companies. Product cannot cross into another country without going through brokerage. My company, which ships many tons of freight internationally a day, has to deal with brokerage firms..

Now, is that brokerage fee really legitimate?
FedEx shipments are routinely only a few kilograms, so a loaded tractor-trailer crossing the border contains hundreds of shipments, totaling tens of thousands of dollars in brokerage fees charged to the recipients. Does anyone believe that FedEx is paying a broker tens of thousands of dollars in service fees to process this single truck crossing? I don't.
A company moving a small number of shipments can be at the mercy of service providers; the courier companies are not. If they must use a broker and don't like the fees, they can just run their own brokerage company... and they do!
FedEx: Customs Brokerage | Customs Clearance – Canada
Purolator: Expert Canadian customs brokers, Purolator International, are the first choice for Customs Brokerage Services when shipping from Canada
In at least the FedEx and Purolator cases, the shipping company is indeed a brokerage company, and it looks like UPS is too, judging from Donna's link. Brokerage may be a pain, but it isn't $40 worth to process my one-item shipment, as demonstrated by UPS's rates.

Originally Posted by Donna D.

Because of international currency, there is no set fee. Dollars flux internationally on an hourly basis...

That's interesting, but entirely irrelevant to this discussion. The "brokerage fee" has nothing to do with currency conversion; the shipping company doesn't even handle the value of the purchase, let alone convert funds between currencies. DryMesh operates in the United States, and appropriately quotes and is paid in U.S. currency. The brokerage fee demand is an unrelated transaction entirely in Canada and in Canadian currency, with the shipping company not DryMesh. Even if the shipping company incurred brokerage costs in one country and charged them in the other (how? the requirements are for entry, not exit), we're talking about a few percent of the fee difference, irrelevant compared to the $40 brokerage fee.

Originally Posted by daveandsandyclink

I don't feel the love here. Spend your money in Canada or pay what it takes to get it imported from the US to your door step. But don't bash the business that supplies you with cheaper goods than you can buy in Canada and charges no sales tax.

I am more than happy to a reasonable Canadian price for good brought to Canada - which hopefully doesn't mean twice the price of the same part from the same company in the U.S. (as it does with, for instance, Ford parts). Indeed, I buy almost everything this way. It is the choice of each supplier to offer their goods across the border (either way) or not; all I ask is that they do it honestly, and understand that I will decline to incur a $40 charge - resulting from their choice of shipper - to receive an $80 item (that I also pay $18 to ship).

If DryMesh has dealers in Canada, then they should list them on their website so we can find them and buy from them.


Donna and I have discussed this before and I'm sure nothing will be resolved here. Perhaps we can agree to disagree, but regardless of whether the brokerage fee is a scam or a legitimate business expense...
Consumers in Canada who are buying from the U.S. are well advised to either get a guarantee of delivery by the postal services, or be prepared to pay $40 or more of "brokerage fee".

If anyone in the U.S. ever bought anything from Canada (other than Escape trailers ), they would presumably face a similar situation, since this has nothing to do with government fees.

[Donna D.]

Here's a Canadian govt link to read and educate yourself: Canada Border Services Agency - Small and medium-sized enterprises

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

Here's a Canadian govt link to read and educate yourself: Canada Border Services Agency - Small and medium-sized enterprises

The brokerage fee is from the couriers - they are most certainly not "small and medium-sized enterprises". The (presumably small) business selling DryMesh doesn't charge the fee for their part in complying with these rules so it can't be very much work per shipment - whatever information they provide is passed on by the couriers as the courier's $40 brokerage filing service.

One item from a checklist linked to that page:

To import

• Obtain invoices, certificates of origin and other required documents.
• Ensure that the goods are marked and labelled as required.
• Await notification that your shipment has arrived.
• Submit the required CBSA documents and pay the duties and taxes (this must be done before the goods can be released).

Note: Shipments valued at less than CAN$2,500 arriving by mail or courier may be assessed for duties and taxes and then released by the CBSA or the courier company.

... so when we import our little stuff documents don't even need to be filed for them to be released by Canada Border Services.

This is why importing takes preparation, but individual shipments are carried across the border by the postal services and even UPS (for small value items) at no per-item charge.

Interesting link though... thanks Donna.

[escape artist]

Hi: All... The last time I got stuck in this "Brokerage charge" thing I simply told the Courier Co. to return the parcel to the sender. The story changed quite quickly and with some additional paper work the parcel was delivered to me...SANS brokerage fee!!! Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

[gbaglo]

Good for you Alf. But, last time I got a UPS delivery ( and the LAST time ), they sent the bill for brokerage by Canada Post and it arrived two weeks after I'd taken delivery. Nothing I could do but pay it.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

... last time I got a UPS delivery ( and the LAST time ), they sent the bill for brokerage by Canada Post and it arrived two weeks after I'd taken delivery. Nothing I could do but pay it.

I've had the same experience, although I think with another courier (Purolator?). It was a business shipment, so even if would have been personally willing to risk the bad credit report of refusing to pay something to which I had not agreed, that was not an option.

[Kountrykamper]

Back on track, we ordered from Drymesh website last Wednesday and it arrived today.

[Jrn56]

Tom, did you order two rolls for your 19?

[Kountrykamper]

Yes, 2 rolls. One for the bed and one for the dinette cushions. I will use some of what is left over from the dinette to do the sides of the bed.

We have a friend who has a new 19' and spent a month in it. They we having some condensation issues and said that the wood under the dinette seats was even a little damp so that's why I figured to just do it all while I was at it. I just hope the cushions don't slide around on it. I will install it Saturday and let you know how I like it.