Electrically challenged

MyronL · 02-09-2014, 05:13 PM

Bought a Multimeter recently. It came without a user's manual. I'm not good with foreign languages. Very slowly, I am getting to know this intimidating instrument.

A contribution by Carol A lit me up. In her post #25, thread "Inverter recommendations," she describes her delight over having Reece install a true sine wave inverter beside the standard converter at the dinette. Carol needed something above and beyond using a cheapo cigarette lighter modified sine inverter thing for non 12 volt appliances.

I understand an inverter can run down the batteries in your trailer quickly if you use a lot of power, have no means of charging the batteries, don't monitor the loss. Also understand if only operating LED lights, furnace, water pump etc you really don't need an inverter.

I may never do it but, if employing sensitive, demanding appliances simultaneously while boondocking, well, you need a really good inverter. I have no intention of running an electric coffee maker or a hair dryer. Regardless, I want a really good inverter.

Ordered a Xantrex PRO Watt 600 Inverter, Model #806-1206 off Amazon and it will be here late next week.

Now I have to figure out how to install it.

Accordingly, have spent today pondering the situation, laying groundwork for the challenge that awaits. I like Reece's configuration, as seen in Carol's post, but when it comes to the actual wiring I really need assurances my plans will not fry anything. Hoping these pix are not too un-self-explanatory. Otherwise, I have no idea what I am doing.

cpaharley2008 · 02-09-2014, 05:46 PM

Myron, your location for the inverter is where I placed the Progressive Industries EMS Progressive Industries in my 19' Escape. Others have placed their inverter on the floor behind the converter in the 19'. Are you contemplating installing an EMS sometime in the future?

MyronL · 02-09-2014, 07:49 PM

EMS?
Enter Momma's Steakhouse? ...Energy Missing Someplace? ...Emergency Motor System?
(Forgive me but this is a very quick reply.) ...What is an EMS?

Think inverter location in my picture will not suffer power loss of consequence due to slightly longer wires. It's also where Reece installed Carol's inverter. What I really need to know is if I have guessed right on wiring into the Converter.

cpaharley2008 · 02-09-2014, 08:03 PM

Electrical monitoring system…….EMS

TAfraser · 02-09-2014, 08:12 PM

I was looking at the wiring diagram for the inverter and am wondering why the On/Off switch is on the negative side?

MyronL · 02-09-2014, 08:12 PM

Isn't that the display above the stovetop vent?

MyronL · 02-09-2014, 08:14 PM

I thought that was as good as anywhere. So on the positive side is best?

TAfraser · 02-09-2014, 09:00 PM

Myron, I don't have any experience with inverters. All I have is my electrical background, which tells me to always switch the positive side. Switching either side will actually work, but switching the negative side creates a safety problem by leaving a potential on the circuit at all times. If you should provide a path to ground with the positive switched off, nothing happens. Providing a path to ground with the negative side switched off can still provide a shocking experience, which most people don't appreciate. I assume you want to control when the outlets are On more conveniently then using the On/Off switch provided on the converter? In that case, I don't see why switching the positive side won't work when leaving the provided On/Off witch in the On position. Many converters come with a remote control to do just what you want. Maybe yours will be one of them? In the end, I would read the instillation instructions provided with the converter and follow them closely. Sorry I couldn't be more help,
Tom

FishBioGirl · 02-09-2014, 09:09 PM

Is an EMS something I should/can have installed during my build?

FishBioGirl · 02-09-2014, 09:10 PM

And why or why not get an inverter?

cpaharley2008 · 02-09-2014, 09:30 PM

2 different animals, the EMS protects the 120v system and everything connected to it. The inverter lets you use a 120v appliance off a battery.

padlin · 02-10-2014, 05:13 AM

I've also been looking at the Xantrex.

Did you notice the PROwatt Remote Panel? It would replace the on/off switch and has a green led to tell you the inverter is on. For $20 it may be worth using.

They also have a Inline Transfer Relay.

Your print shows a pair of duplex receptacles, the unit comes with 2 receptacles on the front of it and as far as I can tell no hard wire connections for AC out. what's your thoughts on wiring in the output side?

As far as where you are picking up the battery leads, I see no problem there.

I'm also thinking of adding a shunt between the negative battery lead and all the rest of the gear (converter, ground, inverter, solar charger). This gives the option to add a battery monitor down the road if I want without rewiring. You can see the idea at the top of page 7 of http://www.bogartengineering.com/sit...ctions9-12.pdf

Jim, what's the difference between the surge protector offered as an option and the EMS you had installed?

FishBioGirl · 02-10-2014, 05:19 AM

Jim - I am convinced that an inverted is not necessary in my trailer, yet curious that others feel they are important. The EMS as protection when the trailer is plugged into electrical sources that may have issues does seem like something worth having ETI install correct? Or use one that is portable, but that risks being a numbskull and forgetting it somewhere or configurations where it might not fit well at an outlet. Again I ask correct?

Jim Bennett · 02-10-2014, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FishBioGirl

Is an EMS something I should/can have installed during my build?

I keep hearing reasons to use one, but know one I know personally uses one, and nobody has ever had a problem. I guess if it gives you piece of mind, it could have value.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FishBioGirl

And why or why not get an inverter?

I have never installed an inverter in any trailer, including my Escape 19 for the past 5 years, and have never felt the need either, and I am off the grid most of the time. I bought a plug in 300W inverter once to use with my laptop if I wanted to watch a movie. That was over 4 years ago, used it once back then, but not at all since. I find it real easy to camp without any need for 120V AC.

For our phones, and my wifes tablet, we just use 12V DC chargers if needed.

cpaharley2008 · 02-10-2014, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by padlin

I've also been looking at the Xantrex.

Jim, what's the difference between the surge protector offered as an option and the EMS you had installed?

It is the same unit…...

padlin · 02-10-2014, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FishBioGirl

Jim - I am convinced that an inverted is not necessary in my trailer, yet curious that others feel they are important. The EMS as protection when the trailer is plugged into electrical sources that may have issues does seem like something worth having ETI install correct? Or use one that is portable, but that risks being a numbskull and forgetting it somewhere or configurations where it might not fit well at an outlet. Again I ask correct?

I've had my non-fiberglass trailer for 8 years. Have yet to have any use for an inverter. Have yet to take a trip over 2 weeks.

Just retired, plan on traveling a lot more and for extended periods. Would like the ability to run an electric blanket or mattress cover, most likely AC. Would like the ability to use the microwave when dry camping for am coffee. An inverter would allow me to do so. I'd also like to try boondocking, if one can do such with a 5th wheel.

These are wants, not needs. I agree, an inverter is not a necessity.

I've also never had an EMS and never had an issue with power, don't know of anyone else who did either. It does sound like a prudent item to go with though.

KarenH · 02-10-2014, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

I keep hearing reasons to use one, but know one I know personally uses one, and nobody has ever had a problem. I guess if it gives you piece of mind, it could have value.

I have never installed an inverter in any trailer, including my Escape 19 for the past 5 years, and have never felt the need either, and I am off the grid most of the time. I bought a plug in 300W inverter once to use with my laptop if I wanted to watch a movie. That was over 4 years ago, used it once back then, but not at all since. I find it real easy to camp without any need for 120V AC.

For our phones, and my wifes tablet, we just use 12V DC chargers if needed.

I agree with Jim on the EMS. Had I known that 12V charges existed I would have bought one for my tablet. Instead I bought one of these which is perfectly adequate for my needs:

Amazon.com : Tripp Lite PV375 Portable Auto Inverter 375W 12V DC to AC 120V 5-15R 2 Outlet : Vehicle Dvd Players : Electronics

cpaharley2008 · 02-10-2014, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by padlin

I've had my non-fiberglass trailer for 8 years. Have yet to have any use for an inverter. Have yet to take a trip over 2 weeks.

Just retired, plan on traveling a lot more and for extended periods. Would like the ability to run an electric blanket or mattress cover, most likely AC. Would like the ability to use the microwave when dry camping for am coffee. An inverter would allow me to do so. I'd also like to try boondocking, if one can do such with a 5th wheel.

These are wants, not needs. I agree, an inverter is not a necessity.

I've also never had an EMS and never had an issue with power, don't know of anyone else who did either. It does sound like a prudent item to go with though.

An inverter will not operate your a/c. Everything else mentioned can be done with propane or 12v. Jon V. has had his EMS save his unit several times as I have also. If you like leave the a/c on while absent, the EMS will protect it from brown outs when everyone else in the cg turns their units on. A new a/c is quite expensive. My unit has protected me several times. It is like backing up your data, some people do, some don't.

Jim Bennett · 02-10-2014, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by padlin

I've had my non-fiberglass trailer for 8 years. Have yet to have any use for an inverter. Have yet to take a trip over 2 weeks.

Just retired, plan on traveling a lot more and for extended periods. Would like the ability to run an electric blanket or mattress cover, most likely AC. Would like the ability to use the microwave when dry camping for am coffee. An inverter would allow me to do so. I'd also like to try boondocking, if one can do such with a 5th wheel.

These are wants, not needs. I agree, an inverter is not a necessity.

I've also never had an EMS and never had an issue with power, don't know of anyone else who did either. It does sound like a prudent item to go with though.

For myself, I can't see ever wanting an electric blanket, and if I did I would like go DC, not AC. I also prefer to have the storage space rather than a M/W, which is something in 25 years of owning a trailer I have not missed at all. So many good stovetop methods for brewing coffee out there. Not even sure how you would use a M/W, just to heat the water for a pour through, or something?

Dave Walter · 02-10-2014, 09:43 AM

For me, an inverter is also unnecessary as all of the electrical accessories I bring with me run on 12V. Don't bring a single item along with me that is AC powered. Have no real need for a microwave. If I need heat, I use the propane furnace (although I would consider bringing along a small AC space heater if camping at sites with AC services during cold weather). If I need to heat water for my wife's coffee, I use the propane stove.

As others have noted, the surge protector is a bit of added insurance for your trailer's electrical system. We do have the surge protector supplied by Escape. For quite a while after our purchase, I thought our surge protector was faulty, as I would occasionally get a reverse polarity error when plugged in at home. Couldn't figure it out as all of my outlets in the house checked out okay and the Escape supplied power cord and adapter were also ok. As it turned out, I had a fairly high quality extension cord that I had used on several occasions to try to plug in my Escape at home, and the extension cord actually had the polarity reversed. When I fixed the cord and reattached to the Escape, the reverse polarity message on my surge protector went away. Good to know that the surge protector is looking out for the well-being of your trailer.

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