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Old 07-04-2018, 11:22 AM   #41
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Yeah.I do have the power jack.Even a spare crank handle just in case the batteries should let me down.
However the angle some times makes the hitch bind.But the big floorjack works even in the gravel.Better days ahead.Minimum gravel delivery is five yards, should help.Neighbour has a
Bobcat machine so will ask him for help with leveling.
Allan.
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Old 07-06-2018, 07:33 PM   #42
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Somewhat late to the OP’s “Decision Party”, I have another bit to add to the 19 vs 21 discussion - something that came to mind yesterday while I was performing routine service on our 19’s dual 6V batteries.

With respect to this one task, I contend that the 19 wins hands down over both the 21 and the 17. As long as you also have the front storage box on your 19. On our 17B the batteries were easily reached, but boy the battery box straps were a bear to open! On the 19 I just open the front box, loosen a couple wingnuts to remove a piece of plywood and there they are. I’ve never serviced batteries in a 21, but what I’ve heard doesn’t sound as easy as the 19. Also, the 21s have those issues with batteries setting off the propane alarms. All just another, albeit minor, point for some to ponder when trying to decide on a trailer model.

Oh, and the other thing that always comes to mind regarding trailer size is all those camping spots that we’ve been able to use over the last few years that bigger trailers just wouldn’t fit into.

YMMV [emoji106]
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Old 07-06-2018, 07:38 PM   #43
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I'd hate to unpack all the junk in my 21 front box just to check the batteries........just flip up the rear bench and loosen two wingnuts.



They haven't caused issues for me in 4 years........
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Old 07-06-2018, 07:48 PM   #44
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Bed Size in a 21

John in Santa Cruz - the bed in the 21 is not a queen size. It is 54 x 80. So it has the width of a double bed and the length of a queen bed. A full queen is 60 x 80, which is what the 19 has. That was the deciding factor for me and my wife in buying our 19.
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Old 07-06-2018, 07:59 PM   #45
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Flat spot

When we set up at a camp site, my wife directs me to place the tandems where she thinks it’s most level. I’m sure most people operate this way. The undulations especially on unpaved surfaces sometimes make going back and forth to find the “sweet spot” necessary. Although the we have the 21 and like it a lot, it is a fact that on sites with a rear wheel stop or bumper stop, there’s less maneuvering length to play with than on the 19. Not a big deal most of the time. I picked a site without looking at it in Michigan a couple years ago and had to go back and change it because the 19 would not fit and still allow the tow vehicle to park in front of the trailer even crossways. Not a problem that day but could have been in a full up reservation situation.
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Old 07-07-2018, 07:03 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckwhanson View Post
John in Santa Cruz - the bed in the 21 is not a queen size. It is 54 x 80. So it has the width of a double bed and the length of a queen bed. A full queen is 60 x 80, which is what the 19 has. That was the deciding factor for me and my wife in buying our 19.
I sort of hear you, buy my wife is fed up of having to climb over me to get up and after our 17B the 21 bed is huge.

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I'd hate to unpack all the junk in my 21 front box just to check the batteries........just flip up the rear bench and loosen two wingnuts.



They haven't caused issues for me in 4 years........
We had a 17B and checking the batteries wasn't that difficult, I didn't struggle with the ties and I'm with Charlie Young on this point. We like that the food prep area in the 21 is right next to the dinette rather than the bed in the 19. And there's way more storage. So we are very happy with our decision to go with the 21.
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Old 07-07-2018, 07:43 AM   #47
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DW wants to have a full-time dedicated bed (me, not so much) so that's why we are interested in the 5.0. I believe the bed in it is 60" x 80".
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Old 07-07-2018, 08:27 AM   #48
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DW wants to have a full-time dedicated bed (me, not so much) so that's why we are interested in the 5.0. I believe the bed in it is 60" x 80".
Are you not familiar with the happy wife saying?

My wife gave me the green light to do anything I wanted. She only had to request. The first was a permanent bed that was not made up every day, and the second was a pot to pee in in the middle of the night. I was more than happy to oblige as she makes a great camping partner.
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Old 07-07-2018, 10:26 AM   #49
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Are you not familiar with the happy wife saying?

My wife gave me the green light to do anything I wanted. She only had to request. The first was a permanent bed that was not made up every day, and the second was a pot to pee in in the middle of the night. I was more than happy to oblige as she makes a great camping partner.

Bingo, Jim!
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Old 08-13-2018, 11:36 PM   #50
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There are lots of 21's pulled with a 5,000 lb tow capacity and they do great. There might be the odd long hill like you describe where passing becomes an issue, but they will do the job well 99% of the time
Cannot understand why this narrative keeps getting propagated here. The truth is that many people have tried that 5000# tow vehicle for a 21 and did not like it and moved up; the most recent was Jon V. Just because ETI started a line of trailers way back when touting "Mid-Size Suv" capable(when they made a 13/15& 17) does not mean it is recommended in today's world. Give it up!
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Old 08-13-2018, 11:46 PM   #51
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Cannot understand why this narrative keeps getting propagated here. The truth is that many people have tried that 5000# tow vehicle for a 21 and did not like it and moved up

And, the other truth is that many people don't feel the need to move up. They find that for most of their vehicle use, a smaller vehicle is more practical and economical.

So, toot your horn. I'll just move over and let you pass and consume fuel.
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Old 08-13-2018, 11:55 PM   #52
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Most people buying a 21 probably know to buy a full size tow vehicle, however some have bought into this old narrative ETI posted years ago and never updated(like a lot of things) and then regretted it mainly because it was too much work- especially in mountainous terrain. Also, you don't save any fuel towing a 4000#+ trailer with a V-6 unless it is a diesel.
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Old 08-13-2018, 11:57 PM   #53
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Toot, toot.
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Old 08-14-2018, 12:00 AM   #54
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heck... I moved up from a 6500 lb tow vehicle. But, it wasn't because it couldn't tow it, it towed it quite reasonably from Dallas to Reno to Santa Cruz... I upgraded because the tow vehicles payload was limited, the gas mileage was poor, and the gas tank was too small.

of course, I went from one extreme...


to the other...



hey, go big or go home!


ps, yes, the Ford is a diesel, 2002 F250 with the 7.3 Powerstroke.
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Old 08-14-2018, 04:49 AM   #55
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Cannot understand why this narrative keeps getting propagated here. The truth is that many people have tried that 5000# tow vehicle for a 21 and did not like it and moved up; the most recent was Jon V. Just because ETI started a line of trailers way back when touting "Mid-Size Suv" capable(when they made a 13/15& 17) does not mean it is recommended in today's world. Give it up!
LOL. You serious? Lots of folks here must be failures then with their choice of tow vehicle.
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Old 08-14-2018, 06:56 AM   #56
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LOL. You serious? Lots of folks here must be failures then with their choice of tow vehicle.
To insult folks who make a choice based on their wants and needs, especially when it is within the capacities of the vehicle is only justification of your own desires,

If you wish to have a vehicle that performs admirably under any condition is your choice and nothing wrong with it. It is true that while towing a full sized pick will get just as good if mileage, but towing is often a small percentage of their driving. If you tow full time it might be a good choice, but if you primary use is running about totem then it may not be. Massive the choice of an SUV comes from a financial one as well, not wanting to own a vehicle just for towing, maybe a pickup with bit fit in their garage, lots of good reasons to choose an SUV.

Maybe my thoughts come from a lifetime of towing, of many different combinations of vehicles and trailers. Most of the big rigs I drove slowed down on step inclines and were very slow in passing, but if the were sized to perform excellently under those conditions the would be way bigger, more expensive and consume a lot more fuel. You accept this, it was not unsafe and it got the job done.

One is well within their rights to an opinion, but to knock others for theirs well......
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Old 08-14-2018, 07:04 AM   #57
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Jim that happens a lot here in this forum as you well know
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Old 08-14-2018, 07:41 AM   #58
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I remember when there were mainly cars towing, very little trucks, SUV's had not been thought of, and the occasional bike, remember watching https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Long,_Long_Trailer
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Old 08-14-2018, 08:36 AM   #59
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Trapping 85 cent muskrats when I was 14 in waist deep water in November in Iowa, I thought “I ought to give this up”. Cutting down a 90 inch diameter lightning struck grand fir in the dark with a 38 pound chainsaw I thought “I ought to give this up. Butchering hogs on a kill at 110 Degrees F at 642 an hour I thought “I ought to give this up”. But I did not give up because it’s not in my DNA as they say. So I’ll keep pulling our 21 with our 5.000 lb rated Highlander and I’ll be where I said I was going to be that night. Because, yes, you got it, I don’t ever give up.
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Old 08-14-2018, 08:46 AM   #60
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I almost don't want to ring in on this, but since my change of tow vehicle was mentioned, I will.

I've towed with a minimal tow vehicle, my combination of the RAV4 & the Escape 17B. All within the rated limits, but like John in Santa Cruz, the limited gas tank was a pain. Low clearance was also annoying. I switched to a Tacoma, which was great for the 17, but overloaded when towing my 21. It also spent far too much time in 2nd gear at 4000 RPM eating gas.

I switched this year to a Ford F 150 3.5 EcoBoost (still a V6), have a 36 gallon fuel tank, after the tongue weight of the 21 & all my stuff, 700 pounds of payload left, and am getting 2-3 more MPG than the Tacoma. What I don't like? It is a big truck, at least compared to the Tacoma. Not as fancy - I'm back to twisting a key rather than a push button start, and I do find the display over the steering wheel not as well organized as the tacoma display. I could have gone with a fancier version, but I don't like leather seats, and you almost have to get them on the higher end trucks. All in all, I'm happier towing with the F150.

I don't want to knock anyone towing with a mid size truck or SUV as long as the tow rating and payload is with in limits, although I'd suggesting carefully checking payload - it is often a limit hit long before towing capacity. I went back & forth between the advantages of an SUV vs a truck, and there are times I'd rather have an SUV, but also times I prefer the truck.
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