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08-15-2018, 12:29 PM
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#81
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Boulder, Colorado
Trailer: 2017 19 Escape
Posts: 200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossue
Cannot understand why this narrative keeps getting propagated here. The truth is that many people have tried that 5000# tow vehicle for a 21 and did not like it and moved up; the most recent was Jon V. Just because ETI started a line of trailers way back when touting "Mid-Size Suv" capable(when they made a 13/15& 17) does not mean it is recommended in today's world. Give it up!
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I understand what u r saying and respect ur opinion. Let me share with u my current, real life towing experience...I’ve towed my 19 to Alaska, all over Alaska, to California, up and safely down 12,000 foot Loveland Pass in Colorado, all quite comfortably with my (get ready, here it comes...) 6 cylinder, AWD Toyota Venza rated at 3500lbs with tow package.
I’ve safely towed in all kinds of conditions: 100 degree heat and in a 9 degree blizzard crossing Kansas. Passing semi’s going uphill and emergency stops coming downhill. My one concession, I do travel light and try not to sleep too much at the wheel.
Would it tow easier with a larger TV? Sure, but then I’d have to drive a truck when I’m not towing, which let’s face it is the majority of time. And even get decent gas mileage when towing around 15+ mpg.
So based on many miles of on the road experience, this works well for me and I’m sticking to it.
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08-15-2018, 12:38 PM
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#82
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Southwick, Massachusetts
Trailer: None, sold my 2014 5.0TA
Posts: 7,124
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If I'm reading this right, Ross posted about a 21, yours is a 19, pretty big difference in weight and frontal profile.
__________________
Happy Motoring
Bob
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08-15-2018, 01:12 PM
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#83
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Boulder, Colorado
Trailer: 2017 19 Escape
Posts: 200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by padlin
If I'm reading this right, Ross posted about a 21, yours is a 19, pretty big difference in weight and frontal profile.
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Yes, u r correct. I was addressing the theme of the overall post and the reference to mid sized suv’s only being used for earlier, smaller Escapes per Escapes advertising. Obviously not the case for my situation.
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08-15-2018, 01:24 PM
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#84
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Site Team
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Mid Left Coast, California
Trailer: 2014 Escape 21
Posts: 5,122
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an escape 19 is about 3000 lbs dry, empty and with zero options. Fill your water, propane tanks, and carry 100 lbs of food+bedding+clothes, and you're AT your tow vehicles max rated tow. got a AC? add 100 lbs.
get in any sort of accident, and the insurance company gets wind you're towing over your vehicles rated limit? blam, insurance is declined.
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08-15-2018, 02:06 PM
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#85
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia
Trailer: 2009 Escape 17B 2020 Toyota Highlander XLE
Posts: 17,136
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It's too painful to read your posts Moaboy.
__________________
What happens to the hole when the cheese is gone?
- Bertolt Brecht
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08-15-2018, 03:06 PM
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#86
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tractors1
Toyota ECT mode just changes the shift points so the tranny will spin up to higher rpms before shifting. ETC used to stand for Electronic Traction Control.
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I believe that in this case ECT stands for Electronically Controlled Transmission. Typically at Toyota the abbreviation for traction control is TRAC, not ETC (at least since 2004 and likely earlier).
Tow/Haul mode can mean many things, but the basic one is changing the shift points; some of the other features are always active in Toyota vehicles, such as Grade Logic (downshifting to provide additional engine braking, which is only active when Tow/Haul is turned on in my SuperDuty) and "learning" (adjusting shift behaviour to suit the driver's actions). Tow/haul in some vehicles also includes keeping the torque converter lockup clutch engaged more (to improve efficiency and reduce fluid heating) - I don't know if ECT PWR affects that, or if a change is even needed in Toyota's program for the Tacoma. In my Ford SuperDuty transmission Tow/Haul also causes the transmission to downshift for engine braking to enforce the cruise control setting (even in the brake pedal isn't touched) which can be handy but is mostly an annoyance - I don't know if Toyota (or Ram, or GM) does that.
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08-15-2018, 03:11 PM
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#87
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris & Patricia
We were also intrigue by the Jake brake option especially to assist with braking on long downhills in the mountain routes we seem to favour.
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The exhaust brake is a great feature for any small diesel, but it's not a compression-release brake (which is the classic Jacobs design, or "Jake brake"). Even the bigger diesels in big pickup trucks don't have compression-release brakes. This exhaust brake is just a throttle valve in the exhaust pipe, so it works essentially like a gasoline engine with the throttle closed (foot off of the pedal); that might be a good thing, because an exhaust throttle like this doesn't make the annoying noise of a compression-release brake.
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08-15-2018, 04:17 PM
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#88
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central, Pennsylvania
Trailer: Escape#5 2022 E19
Posts: 26,268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P
The exhaust brake is a great feature for any small diesel, but it's not a compression-release brake (which is the classic Jacobs design, or "Jake brake"). Even the bigger diesels in big pickup trucks don't have compression-release brakes. This exhaust brake is just a throttle valve in the exhaust pipe, so it works essentially like a gasoline engine with the throttle closed (foot off of the pedal); that might be a good thing, because an exhaust throttle like this doesn't make the annoying noise of a compression-release brake.
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When in the "Tow" mode on my Ram, when I hit the brake, the motor downshifts automatically, thus with the foot off the gas and on the brake and the downshift effect, you can feel the slowdown. But just taking the foot off the gas without touching the brake has no impact, you want the brake activation for both the tow as well as trailer brakes to operate in unison. I do notice that the gear downshift is almost 3 gears as when I go to manually downshift the indicator is already at 5th gear. I assume with the newer 10 speed the downshift is not just one gear, but multiple gears.
__________________
Jim
Sometime life gets in the way of living.......
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08-15-2018, 04:45 PM
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#89
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Boulder, Colorado
Trailer: 2017 19 Escape
Posts: 200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz
an escape 19 is about 3000 lbs dry, empty and with zero options. Fill your water, propane tanks, and carry 100 lbs of food+bedding+clothes, and you're AT your tow vehicles max rated tow. got a AC? add 100 lbs.
get in any sort of accident, and the insurance company gets wind you're towing over your vehicles rated limit? blam, insurance is declined.
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Like I said I travel light. Rarely do I need to have a full tank of water. Usually I travel solo, meeting spouse or guests along my route.
Equally importantly in calculating if a tv is at capacity is also how much weight one has in their tv.There too I travel light. I had a friend who worked at Toyota Corporate and he said Toyota is conservative with their tow limits.
Ur comment about insurance companies is bandied about, but it is not reflected in case law or court outcomes. Of the thousands of possible situations like this, it is rare for a denial to stand up in court. For a variety of reason, but usually there has to be gross negligence for it to apply.
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08-15-2018, 04:48 PM
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#90
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Boulder, Colorado
Trailer: 2017 19 Escape
Posts: 200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbaglo
It's too painful to read your posts Moaboy.
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Gbaglo,
Thank u.
It is open minded and tolerant individuals like u that add a real touch of class to this Forum.
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08-15-2018, 05:06 PM
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#91
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central, Pennsylvania
Trailer: Escape#5 2022 E19
Posts: 26,268
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"An accident waiting to happen" is what attorneys love as well as juries and public search of the internet has no time limits. You have insurance and you have assets, why under insure and put them at risk, unless you weigh yourself before a trip, you do not know what your weight is, once you have all the facts then a better informed decision can be made, until then guesswork is at hand.
__________________
Jim
Sometime life gets in the way of living.......
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08-15-2018, 05:26 PM
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#92
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Boulder, Colorado
Trailer: 2017 19 Escape
Posts: 200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpaharley2008
"An accident waiting to happen" is what attorneys love as well as juries and public search of the internet has no time limits. You have insurance and you have assets, why under insure and put them at risk, unless you weigh yourself before a trip, you do not know what your weight is, once you have all the facts then a better informed decision can be made, until then guesswork is at hand.
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Yes, I worked at a law firm so I’m aware of the attitude of those involved in our legal system.
And I’ve weighed my RV and it was well under my tv towing capacity. I guess it just depends on how much of a margin one prefers. I also grew up driving a truck at a grain elevator, so I’ve got a little experience towing a variety of wagons, trailers etc.
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08-15-2018, 06:01 PM
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#93
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Site Team
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Mid Left Coast, California
Trailer: 2014 Escape 21
Posts: 5,122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moaboy
Ur comment about insurance companies is bandied about, but it is not reflected in case law or court outcomes. Of the thousands of possible situations like this, it is rare for a denial to stand up in court. For a variety of reason, but usually there has to be gross negligence for it to apply.
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can't say I'd want to have to take my insurance company to court, however. they got a lot more lawyers than I do.
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08-15-2018, 06:29 PM
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#94
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Boulder, Colorado
Trailer: 2017 19 Escape
Posts: 200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John in Santa Cruz
can't say I'd want to have to take my insurance company to court, however. they got a lot more lawyers than I do.
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Odds r u wouldn’t have to. 95% of cases are settled out of court. Point is ones exposure is very minimal, unless as I first pointed out, one is grossly negligent, which would not apply here.
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08-15-2018, 07:20 PM
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#95
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia
Trailer: 2019 Escape 21 towed by F-150 with 2.7l eb, formerly Escape 17B 2017
Posts: 563
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moaboy
Odds r u wouldn’t have to. 95% of cases are settled out of court. Point is ones exposure is very minimal, unless as I first pointed out, one is grossly negligent, which would not apply here.
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May I respectfully suggest that knowingly towing a rig that is almost certainly over the towing limit would suggest negligence. The issue is that if there were to be an accident caused by an overloaded rig, the damage is done and if the insurance company won't pay for everyone's medical bills, as well as yours, as already suggested in this thread, insurance companies are not exactly known for their benevolence and will deny coverage and lawyer up quick. IN fact the opposite is true. Many insurance companies will find any excuse to deny liability even for the most unrelated and trivial reasons.
I think that the first issue should be safety, and IMHO, knowingly being very very close to the mark is perhaps not the smartest move and is not acting safely in a risk-averse manner.
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08-15-2018, 07:53 PM
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#96
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: SLO County, California
Trailer: 2014 Escape 21C 2019 Expedition
Posts: 5,210
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Are you kidding? You are over all numbers of your vehicle and are likely a threat to other motorists.
__________________
"We gotta get as far away as we can!"
- Russell Casse, Independence Day
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08-15-2018, 08:21 PM
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#97
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: SLO County, California
Trailer: 2014 Escape 21C 2019 Expedition
Posts: 5,210
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And am curious if ETI hooked you up. I originally wanted a 19 back un 2013 and Tammy said no with a Murano that had 3500 # towing capacity. The Gen2 19's have the largest weight increase of any Gen2 model most likely as a result of going from a 3" to 4" frame. It is almost as heavy as a Gen1 21.
__________________
"We gotta get as far away as we can!"
- Russell Casse, Independence Day
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08-15-2018, 08:51 PM
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#98
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Benton County, Iowa
Trailer: 2013 Escape 21 Classic Number 6, pulled by 2018 Toyota Highlander
Posts: 8,235
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Broadcast
While I’m pretty much a live and let live person I am aware of the incredible amount of what I’ll call data collection going on these days and for that I would say that there are people besides campers reading forums. It’s the same as “Where I hide my spare keys”, I’ve just completed a rare coin collection, rare and valuable antiques owned, etc. Its not a paranoia, it’s a fact that bad people, ambulance chasers and information gatherers are out there.
Or as a guy I know says
“I know I’m paranoid but am I paranoid enough?
Iowa Dave
__________________
Ain’t no trouble jacking a double Burma Shave
Dave
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08-15-2018, 08:52 PM
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#99
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Member
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Boulder, Colorado
Trailer: 2017 19 Escape
Posts: 200
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One can make as many assumptions as u want, I know what the scale said and it was well under 3500. I’ve seen more problems (wrecks) by drivers who r over confident, drive too fast, and too aggressively. They r uselly powered by large tv.
U r entitled to ur opinion, but please don’t attack me.
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08-15-2018, 09:06 PM
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#100
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Site Team
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Canyon Lake, Texas
Trailer: 2015 19 "Past Tents", 2021 F150 Lariat 2.7L EB
Posts: 10,222
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Lets remember to be civil. Make your points and move on, but please do not let the thread drift into hostile territory. Thank you all.
__________________
"You can't buy happiness, but you can buy an RV. And that is pretty close."
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