Escape Unplugged!

[medora]

As we start the long and winding road towards our April 2011 delivery date, we have a very fundamental question. Bits and pieces of this are answered elsewhere in the forums, but it'd be great to have a solid, one-topic understanding of what works ... and won't work ... when you're unplugged.

For instance, as I understand it, A/C won't work if you're unplugged (which makes sense). Is that correct? Will things that are plugged into your A/C outlets work? Or do you need to install 6V outlets and get adaptors for anything you may need to plug in (laptop, toaster, etc).

It'd also be very helpful to understand what runs off battery and what runs off propane when unplugged. Such as ... will the hot water heater work off battery or propane? Or both? And if it's both, how do you specify?

Essentially, we're asking this because we want to outfit our Escape for boondocking -- whatever we can do to facilitate that, we want to anticipate and plan for it.

Thoughts?

Elizabeth

[Garand]

Here ya go!
First, the trailer uses a 12 volt system...the two 6 volt batteries are wired to provide 12v service. All the lights are 12 v so they work all the time...when you are plugged in the alternating current charges the battery, and then the lights, fan, furnace, draw 12v power from the batteries.

• No A/C when unplugged, unless you have a generator...and I think the Honda EU1000 is too small (corrections, anyone). AC outlets are "dead" when unplugged, but there are 12v outlets in the trailer (cigarette lighter-type outlets). We plug the laptop's converter (with 12v plug) into the 12v outlets when dry camping. If they make 12v toasters you might have a chance...but I'd hate to think how much current they'd draw.
  
• The water heater runs on either propane or house current (110 volts AC, not 12 volt DC). There are switches to select either propane or electric. The refrigerator operates the same way...either 110 AC or propane.

For boondocking you'll either need a solar set-up or a generator, or both. You will only have air conditioning if you have a big enough generator.

[Vermilye]

Well, I'm going through the same process - also picking up a 17B in April. I can answer a couple of your questions:
You do need 120vAC power to run the A/C. Your 120VAC outlets only work if you are plugged in unless you add an inverter. Inverters provide limited amounts of power since they draw 10X the amps from the battery that you use at 120V. For example, a 10 amp hair dryer would draw 100 amps from your battery. Even a few minutes at that rate would quickly deplete your battery.

A small 100 - 200 watt portable inverter to power your laptop, and other non-heating appliances might be worth having - you would have to have a 12v receptacle installed at the location you want to put the inverter. As long as it in under 100 watts it can be plugged into a 12V receptacle. More than that & it should be wired directly to the battery.

Your 17B uses a 12v battery (or 2 6 volt batteries wired in series to produce 12V). It powers the lights, propane detector, Power Maxx Fan, furnace fan, tank level electronics, etc. The standard 3.0 Cubic ft. 3-way Dometic Fridge will run on 12V, however it draws quite a bit & is generally switched to propane if not being powered by the tow vehicle. The larger refer is only 120V or propane. You can have 12v receptacles added if you want them. Propane powers the stove, heating for the furnace, and the hot water heater. It is possible to order the trailer with a hot water heater that runs on AC or propane.

If boondocking is what you want to do you might consider adding solar, 2-6 volt batteries rather than the standard 12volt, and double propane tanks. If you are planning to pull the trailer on rough dirt roads, ordering the lifted axle might also make sense.

There are a couple of threads here at the forum that are filled with suggestions for options that owners have found useful or wished they had ordered. Check http://escapeforum.org/index.php?topic=1186.0, and the modifications section (http://escapeforum.org/index.php?board=2.0 for some ideas.

I'm sure others will have additional suggestions.

[escape artist]

Hi: All...Just a couple of items to add. The furnace and fridge igniters for running propane also use 12V. so a well charged battery or set of batteries are good to have. If I was thinking boondocking/ lotdocking for extended time periods I'd be getting the solar panel from Reace. My opinion...YMMV. Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

[Hokie Escape]

Originally Posted by escape artist

Hi: All...Just a couple of items to add. The furnace and fridge igniters for running propane also use 12V. so a well charged battery or set of batteries are good to have. If I was thinking boondocking/ lotdocking for extended time periods I'd be getting the solar panel from Reace. My opinion...YMMV. Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

Or, a small generator to recharge your batteries occasionally during the boon docking adventure. A small generator will recharge your batteries, and run everything in your trailer, while you are recharging, EXCEPT the A/C. You'd need a larger generator for that. Jon mentioned it, but better to repeat...If you want the dual fuel water heater (120V or propane) you have to ask for it. The propane only is standard. Why dual fuel? If you are plugged into a power pod somewhere (as in a campground with power), you may as well have the fee you paid for the campsite heat the water rather than your propane.
Congrats on your order....now comes the hard part - waiting!!!!!!!

[Jim Bennett]

I often boondock for 4-5 days, and have never come close to draining my batteries. My next move would be to use LED lights to save there. I imagine if it was colder and the heater ran more, then some sort of charging would be needed.

Definitely get the dual fuel water heater, and for times when hooked up to 120V it is nice to have a small cube heater along instead of running the loud furnace fan.

[gbaglo]

Jim,

Which cube heater? I picked one up at London Drugs and took it back the next day. Fan was way loud in my living room so I couldn't imagine it in the trailer.

I'm using a small 800w oil-filled heater. Takes more space, but it is silent.

baglo

[Jim Bennett]

I will have to check tomorrow, not certain offhand what it is.

[Texscapees]

We've been real happy with our small cube heater. We have the Pelonis B-6A1, Classic 4 Disc Ceramic Safety Furnace. It puts out a lot of heat, is small, doesn't make a lot of noise, & seems reasonably safe as far as portable heaters go.

We picked ours up at the Burlington, Washington Camping World last Oct on our return trip from Chilliwack. We used it when plugged in and camping in temps down in the single digits fahrenheit range. It kept our trailer plenty cozy.

This heater is certainly not cheap which is a downside - although we still feel it's been worth it for us.

http://www.campingworld.com/shopping...-furnace/19119

http://www.amazon.com/Pelonis-B-6A1-...5856471&sr=8-4

[medora]

So with this particular heater, are you using while plugged in? Or off battery?

~e

[Texscapees]

We use our propane furnace when boondocking in cold weather. Our Pelonis is an electric heater so we only use it when we're plugged in. The 110v ac plugs don't work when you're unplugged unless you use an inverter. In the case of a portable electric heater, it would require a powerful inverter to handle the wattage which still wouldn't be advisable b/c portable heaters are power hogs and would drain your battery quickly (even with solar it still wouldn't be a good idea imo).

[Garand]

The ceramic disc heaters are 110 vac...so you have to be plugged in. When unplugged we use a catalytic propane heater:
http://www.mrheater.com/product.aspx?catid=41&id=24
It puts our plenty of heat (on either setting) and has both a low-oxygen sensor and a tip-over shutoff. You have to keep a window cracked in the trailer, but with three dogs and the resultant effluvia, we need windows open anyway

Dave

[medora]

I'm very curious about the "standard" furnace -- is it really as loud as everyone's saying it is? I'm guessing it must be, otherwise you all wouldn't have so many extra units ... and if that's the case I start to wonder if it's possible just to get a quieter furnace installed in the trailer to begin with, so that we don't have to buy/carry/run something separate?

We are very very noise sensitive so I am guessing the standard furnace will not make us very happy.

[Texscapees]

Whether or not the furnace is too bothersome to use depends on the individual. For example, we don't mind it & it doesn't keep us awake but there are plenty of people who have previously posted that it is too noisy for them. The only way to know whether or not it'd bother you personally is to listen to one operating with your own ears - perhaps a return visit to one of the cheesehead contingent's trailers could help you.

[Garand]

I have to agree with Brad. We find the furnace much quieter than the furnace on our Casita...but it's "newness" may contribute to that as well. That being said, we didn't mind the (louder) noise of the Casita furnace either. We use the smaller heaters (either gas or electric) maintain the heat at night...the furnace is used to warm the trailer initially and the smaller units to maintain it. The smaller units provide enough warmth for nighttime comfort.

Noise is an interesting thing. We have a friend who can't sleep without the sound of an electric fan (white noise). I suspect many folks object the cycling of the furnace rather than the absolute noise. I've slept through mortar and rocket attacks, but the sound of a dog's nails clicking on our bedroom floor will get me up to let the pup out (which may simply be conditioning to avoid having to clean up accidents). With a lifetime's exposure to jet engine noise and gunfire, my most common opening gambit in any conversation is, "What?"

Dave

[Jim Bennett]

For those of you using the catalytic heaters, where do you keep them when they are running, especially if you have a dog. And, are there any that can be plumbed in to the trailer gas so one could eliminate those darn disposable bottles?

[fudge_brownie]

As a cheese head "I resemble that remark" (the source of that saying is The Three Stooges), but like it or not it is what Wisconsinites are famous for. Elizabeth you are welcome to take another look and listen to my Escape 19. I have only used the furnace once and it is noisy, unbearable noisy? No, especially when considering the alternative of being cold. I found day time use was not that noticeable, it is at night when everything is so quiet. The other factor is just how cold it is outside and what temperature setting you use because that will change the cycle times. Less cycle will be less noise. I guess it will wake you up, you will say to yourself, "OH! That’s the furnace" and drift back to sleep.

I believe the thermostat only goes down to 50, perhaps only the numbers go down to 50 and it can be set lower. Really 50 is not that cold if you have enough covers. I would try to go lower if possible. I have read that the furnace goes through propane at a pretty fast rate; make sure both tanks have something in them.

On our upcoming trip in two weeks we are going to experiment with a cube heater, a Farm Fleet special at $16. Not even sure if it has a fan on it. After reading the above posts I better test it first to see what noise factor is present.

Cheese Head No. 3

[Garand]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

For those of you using the catalytic heaters, where do you keep them when they are running, especially if you have a dog. And, are there any that can be plumbed in to the trailer gas so one could eliminate those darn disposable bottles?

Jim;
We kept ours on the table. I ran a small fan to pull the hot air from the ceiling to the floor to keep the dogs warm. I ran our heater from a 20 lb tank when I used it in the garage during the winter. I suppose it wouldn't be too difficult to run a hose from one of the trailer's tanks, but its probably much easier to refill the 1 lb bottles. I've been able to refill them as many as three times before the rubber seals failed.

[medora]

Is one of the reasons for the secondary unit then that the installed unit is actually TOO hot?

Has anyone tried a Vornado Space Heaterhttp://www.amazon.com/Vornado-VH2-Vo.../dp/B00006C7HJ? We have one in the house and like it quite a bit. Not sure what kind of power hog it is tho.

(I'll be in touch, Paul. Heard about a new cheesemaker near Dunbarton, I may need a fix)

[amirie]

We've used our furnace a number of times on the "wet" coast.. I haven't found that it used a lot of propane or battery power to cycle on and off.

I DO wear those foam earplugs every night anyway and I can still hear noises and maybe hear the furnace a bit, but it really is background noise. Doug says it doesn't bother him...

We have a small cube heater and I find it much noisier...