Failed Battery Replacement Dilemma

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by Rossue

My takeaway is why would I buy very expensive batteries that seem to require such a finicky charge regimen or risk failure? For most folks needs here it seems those cheap Costco Interstates do in fact Rock!

Oh, Oh.

I agree.
I also find the fewer monitors you install, the less anxiety you suffer.

[Rossue]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

Oh, Oh.

I agree.
I also find the fewer monitors you install, the less anxiety you suffer.

Amen Glenn!

[John in Santa Cruz]

I like having a voltage monitor, currently using one plugged into a cigar outlet. it just lets me know that things are charging when I think they should be and the overall state of things when I'm on battery.

[Upfisk]

On our sailboat we 1st bought exceedly expensive Rolls 6V batteries, paid $750 each in 1995. We were plugged into the dock continuesly until April 1997. The batteries started to fail in the summer of '97. Rolls had a 10 year warranty. They told us our batteries were either undercharged or overcharged, and they would not warranty them. We limped by with them until 1999. Then replaced with $100 any flavor 6V battery. Threw the 6V batteries away every 2 years, and it worked. We met snooty AGM owners in the early 2000s that informed us their $400 AGMs were the answer, after 3 years or less the AGMs would fail, those owners then went to the cheap 6V batteries. We spent 18 years cruising, the batteries are the weakest part of a solar system. Our toss after 2 years was because we would run the batteries down to 12V on a weekly basis. We had 4 -6V batteries in series parallel and a daily diet of 40-50 amps. Charging in Mexico was easy, by noon they system floated. In the Caribbean the marine layer never floated the batteries, with the addition of a wind generator we did manage to float charge the batteries more often. We weekly used the diesel motor's alternator to charge things, mainly our batteries were abused. AGMs may work better in the travel trailer than flooded lead acid batteries, but the cheap Costco batteries are sure inexpensive if you either undercharge or overcharge.

[MikeS]

Perry - When you replace the converter I (I suspect others) would appreciate if you can grab a few pictures along the way. This mod is high on my list and while others have done it in the past we all know Escapes change so any update or confirmation of lack of changes would be great!

[Tford]

I guess my question is what comes standard in terms of battery charging protection in our trailers? My 5 year old TA is finally losing battery power, but I figured 5 years was pretty good for the GC2 6V Interstates it came with. When not on the road soaking up the sun for that portion of charging, it sits in covered storage out of the sun here in TX but is always plugged in. Shouldn’t that keep batteries up to snuff as long as one keeps up with fluid level checks?

[fudge_brownie]

I have the same batteries, same age and same signs of failure. Easiest solution is to replace with the same Interstates. A bit more difficult is to step up to the Trojan T105, hard to find for me. Guess one could step down to a big box 6 volt golf car.

I choose to go to an AGM, about the same lifespan, twice the cost, no off gassing so no more nighttime propane alarms, slightly faster solar charge times, more full charging required (monitoring charging), end of adding water and . . . Hopefully a longer lifespan.

I will install Deka 8GGC2 batteries. Made for solar, they are a true deep cycle battery, rated between 1,000 and 2,000 cycles - depending on whose numbers you want to believe. These are a gel AGM battery and will cost 256 US each before taxes.

I guess I can report the results in several years.

[alanmalk]

Originally Posted by Upfisk

...
We met snooty AGM owners in the early 2000s that informed us their $400 AGMs were the answer, after 3 years or less the AGMs would fail, those owners then went to the cheap 6V batteries.
...

I'm one of those snooty AGM owners. A few years before even thinking about an RV I purchased a group 27 (mid-size) AGM from Sears to use as a trolling motor for my pontoon boat. The only care it has ever received was a full charge after a day of fishing. "Full charge" meaning 24 hours on the voltage regulated charger at 14.5 volts until the acceptance amperage went down to 1/4 amp or less. Charger removed and then I ignore it until the next fishing trip. That AGM will be on its 8th season this summer. No, I don't know how much of its original 70 AH capacity remains, but I expect it will eventually leave me out on the lake to row home.

Fast forward a few years and I purchased the same brand of battery (believe made by Oddesy) for my Escape '21. A pair of group 31's. Time will tell if they last as long.

Oh, and we destroyed an 8D gell cell battery on our sailboat in under 2 years. Go figure...

--
Alan

[fudge_brownie]

In looking at AGM batteries the most discouraging thing was the usage of “deep cycle battery”. Apparently that designation does not mean a thing. Anyone can label their battery a deep cycle.. Usually if you see a CCA rating it is not a deep cycle, note the word usually. The real key is the number of cycles it can handle 100% to 50%. A deep cycle battery will be near a thousand, a starting (LSI) around 300.

[TheLonePine]

I'd be interested in when folks are finding they have to replace flooded golf cart batteries. We have interstate 6v x 2 on our 17ft escape with Solar, they are entering their 6th season, kept warm over the winter in a garage and charged from time to time using a Genius Charger (nice little device). Last Fall their charge didn't seem to be holding as well as previous shoulder season trips and I am thinking it is time to replace. Interesting thread with lots of ideas on flooded v AGM - I am interested as well in what you all think makes a good replacement choice.

[Tford]

Originally Posted by fudge_brownie

I choose to go to an AGM,....no off gassing so no more nighttime propane alarms... . . . .

I wonder if anyone has tried putting a small computer fan somewhere in the battery box venting system to create a little more positive air pressure venting? Hook it up to 110 so it only runs when hooked up to shore power....I’ve had a couple propane alarms, thankfully not at night and every once in a while out there in its storage space while hooked up....

[Vermilye]

My problem:

While dry camping, I would like to be able to run my microwave at breakfast for 5 minutes at full power. While there is plenty of reserve in the pair of stock 6V batteries, the morning voltage after a night of furnace run will often be low enough that the inverter shuts down due to low voltage during the microwave run.

I also have the common 21 problem of the propane detector going off during the afternoon when the solar tops off the batteries.

I see two choices for the solution to both problems. Switching to 4 6V Lifeline AGM 220 amp hour batteries. The only problem I see is the additional 130 pounds behind the wheels.

The other solution is a pair of 100 amp hour Battle Born Lithium batteries. Total weight is around 70 pounds, or less than the original battery pack. The problem (other than the $) is Battle Born suggested strongly that the batteries be removed to a warm place if stored under 4°F. While my intention is to never have the trailer (or me) in a place that cold, if I stay in upstate NY for a winter, it is going to happen. The Battle Born batteries will fit in the stock Escape battery box, but digging them out would be a PIA.

Both solutions provide about the same amount of usable amp hours, and I have a programable solar controller that can match the requirements for either system. I'm open to comments!

[MikeS]

Originally Posted by Vermilye

My problem:

While dry camping, I would like to be able to run my microwave at breakfast for 5 minutes at full power. While there is plenty of reserve in the pair of stock 6V batteries, the morning voltage after a night of furnace run will often be low enough that the inverter shuts down due to low voltage during the microwave run.

I also have the common 21 problem of the propane detector going off during the afternoon when the solar tops off the batteries.

I see two choices for the solution to both problems. Switching to 4 6V Lifeline AGM 220 amp hour batteries. The only problem I see is the additional 130 pounds behind the wheels.

The other solution is a pair of 100 amp hour Battle Born Lithium batteries. Total weight is around 70 pounds, or less than the original battery pack. The problem (other than the $) is Battle Born suggested strongly that the batteries be removed to a warm place if stored under 4°F. While my intention is to never have the trailer (or me) in a place that cold, if I stay in upstate NY for a winter, it is going to happen. The Battle Born batteries will fit in the stock Escape battery box, but digging them out would be a PIA.

Both solutions provide about the same amount of usable amp hours, and I have a programable solar controller that can match the requirements for either system. I'm open to comments!

The temp suggestion is a stumbling block for us also. I really like the 100 amp lithiums at some point in the future, but the idea of pulling them out for winter and putting them back in when we head south for a couple weeks mid winter, then pulling them back out again sounds like a pain.

[padlin]

Jon, could you offset the rear end weight with like weight, or whatever it takes, up under the bed or some such? I wouldn't think the extra weight overall would bother your rig?

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Vermilye

The other solution is a pair of 100 amp hour Battle Born Lithium batteries. Total weight is around 70 pounds, or less than the original battery pack. The problem (other than the $) is Battle Born suggested strongly that the batteries be removed to a warm place if stored under 4°F. While my intention is to never have the trailer (or me) in a place that cold, if I stay in upstate NY for a winter, it is going to happen. The Battle Born batteries will fit in the stock Escape battery box, but digging them out would be a PIA.

If you store the trailer at home what is wrong with some shore power and a small electric heater? Find one with a very low temperature setting or better yet rig something up where the heater (and thermostat) are under the dinette bench with the batteries so you aren’t heating the whole trailer. 4F is pretty cold. I know it’s cold in Oswego but I don’t think the average is too ridiculous, right?

[MikeS]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

If you store the trailer at home what is wrong with some shore power and a small electric heater? Find one with a very low temperature setting or better yet rig something up where the heater (and thermostat) are under the dinette bench with the batteries so you aren’t heating the whole trailer. 4F is pretty cold. I know it’s cold in Oswego but I don’t think the average is too ridiculous, right?

That thought crossed my mind also, but we keep ours in storage so the thought of running a heater out of visual range makes me nervous. Another thought I had was a heat mat similar to what is used for starting plants or warming dog houses. At least its sealed so it would seem to take care of any fire risk.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by MikeS

That thought crossed my mind also, but we keep ours in storage so the thought of running a heater out of visual range makes me nervous. Another thought I had was a heat mat similar to what is used for starting plants or warming dog houses. At least its sealed so it would seem to take care of any fire risk.

Better yet they make purpose made battery heater wraps for cold climates. I’m sure something could be made to work.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...VQZOAC2UJP7ANU

This is interesting too...RELiON has a line of low temperature lithium batteries that will warm themselves up to a safe temperature for charging. Expensive of course, but a possible game changer?
https://relionbattery.com/blog/lithi...y-cold-weather
https://relionbattery.com/products/lithium/rb100-lt

[sclifrickson]

A related question: I’ve read a bit about a fancy run down test that’s supposed to be the only way to accurately measure a battery’s actual capacity, which changes over time. I believe this is more commonly done in the sailing crowd. Does anyone have experience with or greater knowledge of this? Would be very handy for programming true battery capacity into a fancy battery monitor, eg the Victrons and Trimetrics.

[TZBrown]

I had the same issue as Jon, but without the inverter problem. 12.4 morning voltages after a night with the furnace and TV

We also have a 21, I added a second set of GC2 wet batteries, and box, on the drivers side
moved a few things around in the other storage areas. Changed the Solar controller to a Blu Sky 3000I, and added another 100w panel to the system.

The tongue weight is still right at 480 lbs and the overall trailer weight is 4800, full load with everything and a full fresh water tank. No issues with trailer stability.

I still have the propane sensor going off at times, and may go to small fans inside the battery vent tubes, possibly switched manually.

The AGM or Lithium batteries are attractive, but with the charging and maintenance and, at the price today, not so much.

[fudge_brownie]

Since batteries are very difficult to purchase via the internet due to shipping costs. Some of your purchasing decision is dependent on where you live or where you visit. For instance, I am currently in the golf car capital of the world, Florida, and there are many sources. As some pointed outed, Wyoming may not have the same choices.

At home, I was surprised that there was not a dealer for Trojan batteries within 75 miles. If I want some choices, outside of Interstate and big box brands, it looks like I have to venture about 30 miles. I first looked at lifeline brand and was told because of cost and infrequent demand locally they would be over $500 each. I believe there was some shipping involved.

Since I wanted a true deep cycle battery, with at least 1,000 cycles 100% to 50% my choices were limited. In the case of Deka, it required some correspondence with the manufacturer to confirm their specs. When all is said and done it appears the AGM’s from Deka will cost about an extra $100 each over replacement Interstates.