Frameless Window Failure

[padlin]

Looking at your drawing, couldn't one just shim out the inner stop to prevent the outer window from contacting so hard? Maybe just some thin weatherstrip.

[wetzk]

Originally Posted by padlin

Looking at your drawing, couldn't one just shim out the inner stop to prevent the outer window from contacting so hard? Maybe just some thin weatherstrip.

The outer window glass does not make firm contact. The seal is against
the inner part. My 1mm test piece was not in tight I could slide it around. So the outer was not in a bind. I still think the issue is they used the wrong adhesive on the foam strip between the two pieces of glass. On both of ours that failed the adhesive became a soft sticky mess. I saved one window for parts if I ever needed them and the seal completely failed laying flat on a shelf in the shed.

[padlin]

That being the case I don't see why they say to not close the window so hard. Something doesn't make sense.

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by suncoastdancers

I would not go that far. I believe that the problem is predominantly with the small split windows. No one has posted on this forum a failure on any of the full pane window models.

Still, not much reassurance if you have the 17 ft model with 4 of these suspect windows, like me.

I don't want to discourage anyone now ordering from going with the frameless option. Especially if you are not getting the suspect window size.

Further clarification. The frameless option will be available next year with the carefree awning. I saw one at ETI. Just be careful to close your passenger side windows before retracting the awning.

There have been some with problems at the rear double opening windows . One fellow lives in my town .Aware of problems on family Class A 's . Really don't care for the windows . The sliders have been around a long time . Pat

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

Methinks you have that backwards. The awning has more open area, thus better ventilation.

That said, they both work great. I have never had need for all the windows to be open at once with either style. Having the MaxxFan requires little open venting area as well.

Sorry did a real world test with both we have sun and heat here won’t work for us family with Class A’s hate them also for same reason Deal breaker for us Pat

[wetzk]

Originally Posted by padlin

That being the case I don't see why they say to not close the window so hard. Something doesn't make sense.

Unless they invented a non-Newtonian fluid adhesive there should be no way that pressure would cause it to soften and become gummy.
Here is our kitchen window from early spring. Was washing the vehicle and noticed it was partially open. Went to close it and discovered it was already closed. When opened this is what it looked like. Notice it had come apart most of the way up the side and there are threads of gummy adhesive towards the bottom? I did not save this window, I did save the bathroom one as a potential source of parts and it did not even look this bad. But laying flat on a shelf the rest of the adhesive between the panes has failed so I can lift the outer part off now.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by wetzk

I do not know about the large windows but the small aluminum not plastic frame is very rigid. The others are aluminum framed too.

In case there is some confusion here...
The "frameless" windows with glass glazing (as used by Escape) have aluminum frames.
The Dometic brand of "frameless" windows with acrylic glazing have polyurethane ("plastic") frames.

Even the aluminum frames can twist; they certainly do in my Boler, which has the same type of moulded fiberglass shell as an Escape. I'm not saying that this is the problem, only suggesting that frame flex may be a concern.

On the other hand, flexing seems like it would be a greater problem with larger windows, while the pane separation problems seem to occur most frequently in the smaller windows (which should be relatively rigid, as wetzk notes).

[akmacs]

I haven't noticed any deamination with our windows but multiple failures would probably push me to go with sliders. Crossing my fingers..

[RHStools]

I thought of you guys while I was checking the "Gone with Wynn's" youtube page (a couple that used to own a Class A and then bought or traded it for a yacht). Anyway, it seems that everyone has delamination problems with frameless windows. Check their video out

Those acrylic (or single pane) windows are looking better to me all the time.

[J&B Mitt]

Originally Posted by Perryb67

I was told 20% of the campers have had at least one failure. That's 20% of the campers, not 20% of the windows.

Originally Posted by Brian B-P

So all of your original windows failed, all were replaced, and all of the replacement windows failed? -confused- That would be 200% of the windows in your trailer failing.

Brian-No, sorry, I said that our bathroom window failed twice.

Among us 'one percenters' here, how many have had failures of the bathroom window, compared with the identical kitchen window?

[wetzk]

Originally Posted by J&B Mitt

Brian-No, sorry, I said that our bathroom window failed twice.

Among us 'one percenters' here, how many have had failures of the bathroom window, compared with the identical kitchen window?

If you mean original not replacement window failures our kitchen window delaminated first, then a month or so later the bathroom window failed.
So far the replacements are doing good.
I just went out and looked at the old bathroom window in the shed again and noticed something else different about it and the replacements. On all the other windows and the two new replacement ones there is a semigloss black coating completely covering the foam seal between the two panes. The one in the shed has very little coating and some of the foam is showing.

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by Patandlinda

Sorry did a real world test with both we have sun and heat here won’t work for us family with Class A’s hate them also for same reason Deal breaker for us Pat

That is not an apples to apples test. If their Class A is anything like the ones I know of, there is a HUGE volume of air inside compared to an Escape, and the percentage of venting window are compared to the volume too is WAY less than an Escape.

If you compare the same sized windows like in the same classic and new style Escape, a sliders open area to vent is well under half the total size, whereas an awning is open all along the bottom and some up both sides giving you lots of area for airflow.

Nothing wrong with preferring sliders, I did just great with them in my 19, but when the awnings perform for venting at least as good, all I am saying is the venting reasoning for choosing or not is moot. Failure issues for some that had them are a very valid reason for not considering the awning. Style, performance and ease of use are good reasons for choosing them.

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

That is not an apples to apples test. If their Class A is anything like the ones I know of, there is a HUGE volume of air inside compared to an Escape, and the percentage of venting window are compared to the volume too is WAY less than an Escape.

If you compare the same sized windows like in the same classic and new style Escape, a sliders open area to vent is well under half the total size, whereas an awning is open all along the bottom and some up both sides giving you lots of area for airflow.

Nothing wrong with preferring sliders, I did just great with them in my 19, but when the awnings perform for venting at least as good, all I am saying is the venting reasoning for choosing or not is moot. Failure issues for some that had them are a very valid reason for not considering the awning. Style, performance and ease of use are good reasons for choosing them.

As I said family with Class A's prefer the sliders for ventilation and reliability . We also after trying them, frameless , prefer the tried and true sliders . For us style does not trump function . Never in all our RV's had to replace or tape up a window with our sliders . Sitting in a RV 's with awning and sliders the slider windows won for movement of air . Customers can choose whatever they like for their trailer . For many of us sliders are the choice for our trailers . Pat

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by Patandlinda

As I said family with Class A's prefer the sliders for ventilation and reliability . We also after trying them, frameless , prefer the tried and true sliders . For us style does not trump function . Never in all our RV's had to replace or tape up a window with our sliders . Sitting in a RV 's with awning and sliders the slider windows won for movement of air . Customers can choose whatever they like for their trailer . For many of us sliders are the choice for our trailers . Pat

Forgot another point you made , ease of use ? We have kitchen window that is awning and we were warned to be careful about opening and closing with the knob at orientation.Ours stays open most of the time and we are very careful with knob , closing and opening . Had to take what was offered for opening window in kitchen area . It looks to be better awning window so hopefully will get lots of years use with no trouble . Pat

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by Patandlinda

As I said family with Class A's prefer the sliders for ventilation and reliability . We also after trying them, frameless , prefer the tried and true sliders . For us style does not trump function . Never in all our RV's had to replace or tape up a window with our sliders . Sitting in a RV 's with awning and sliders the slider windows won for movement of air . Customers can choose whatever they like for their trailer . For many of us sliders are the choice for our trailers . Pat

Very true that sliders have the better track record, and as I mentioned worked fine in our 19. It is just that now having had the frameless and much preferring them, my wish is that they get the Kinks worked out. Really, I don't think it is that hard if they really tried.

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

Very true that sliders have the better track record, and as I mentioned worked fine in our 19. It is just that now having had the frameless and much preferring them, my wish is that they get the Kinks worked out. Really, I don't think it is that hard if they really tried.

Most times the ease of option we find is really not a big deal. One place it is great is when laying in bed where it is easier to reach over and twist the knob to open or close as you want, then reefing on the slider to do the same.

[Patandlinda]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

Very true that sliders have the better track record, and as I mentioned worked fine in our 19. It is just that now having had the frameless and much preferring them, my wish is that they get the Kinks worked out. Really, I don't think it is that hard if they really tried.

Yes, would be nice Jim .You are very capable to fix or change your windows . Many are not . New nice fiberglass trailer having this issue and maybe tape holding window together not good for anyone . Pat

[MimStan]

For those that prefer sliding windows, but struggle with ventilation in the rain, this Maxxaire product performs very well. We had them on the sliders in our previous Scamp and they allowed ventilation in sideways rain and wind:


Airxcel | Maxxair | Window/Maxx


So far so good with the frameless windows in our 17B (fingers crossed)

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by MimStan

For those that prefer sliding windows, but struggle with ventilation in the rain, this Maxxaire product performs very well. We had them on the sliders in our previous Scamp and they allowed ventilation in sideways rain and wind:


Airxcel | Maxxair | Window/Maxx


So far so good with the frameless windows in our 17B (fingers crossed)

Folks on FGRV were saying they are no longer made.

[cpaharley2008]

I gave one away at an Escape Rally, just to be clear, sliders will leak if you do not maintain them and clean out the weep holes.