Frameless Window Failure

[suncoastdancers]

Originally Posted by Oldtimer

If one can not notice that their window is open when taking down their manual awning, what else are they missing putting up. Stinkiy hose, power cord, raising stabilizer jacks......... off on and so on

At night, in the dark, in a hurry with a windstorm coming. It could happen to anyone!

Picture noting clearance attached.

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by Oldtimer

If one can not notice that their window is open when taking down their manual awning, what else are they missing putting up. Stinkiy hose, power cord, raising stabilizer jacks......... off on and so on

While I too think that the awning windows and manual awning are not the perfect combo, I have to think that common sense would (at least should) prevail in this situation.

Originally Posted by suncoastdancers

At night, in the dark, in a hurry with a windstorm coming. It could happen to anyone!

If it was ugly weather I certainly would not have a window open, and if I had to retract a manual awning during the night (and I have a couple times) I would turn a light on. I guess though not everyone would.

Originally Posted by Iowa Dave

Checklists with an order of execution are the only way to go for us. Posted on the inner door frame and added to or modified as conditions change, they have saved me money from leaving things behind several times.
Iowa Dave

Isn't that kinda like reading a manual? Would you not first have to turn your man card in before doing so?

Okay, full disclosure, in my marital relationship I am the one who fully reads most manuals, especially when there are things to learn.

For now my checklists are ingrained in my memory, but that seems to be gradually diminishing. LOL

[CADreamin]

I had three delaminated windows replaced by ETI today. Closing the awning on a fully opened window would likely damage the window or winding mechanism.

Aaaah, but if you did happen to do the latter, one can almost guarantee that you'll only replace that window once because you'd never do it again ...

[Iowa Dave]

Included on the door checklist is the reminder pick up a new man card made out of buffalo leather after I boiled the last one and ate it for breakfast. Lists and checklists have guided my life for many years, however the ones on the two Escapes were the creation of Arizona Jack, and I thank him every time I pack up.
Iowa Dave

[CADreamin]

We were pleasantly surprised to see that ETI now includes a laminated, full page checklist with all their new trailers.

[Bakes99]

Originally Posted by CADreamin

We were pleasantly surprised to see that ETI now includes a laminated, full page checklist with all their new trailers.

My laminated checklist delaminated. Can’t find the warranty info on that one.

[CADreamin]

[rjbny]

Originally Posted by sclifrickson

Tammy was quoted as stating the frameless thermal failure rate at less than 1%, which would also be much closer to the rate of failures reported here.

Reace said the same on a phone call I had with him a couple of months ago.

[suncoastdancers]

Originally Posted by rjbny

Reace said the same on a phone call I had with him a couple of months ago.

Assuming that on average, each trailer has 8 windows, an 1% "overall' failure rate (1 in 100 windows) would mean one in 12 to 13 trailers with frameless windows (8%) will have a failed window. That is an unacceptable rate of failure and I am certain Reace would agree.

I believe that the right question to ask is "Which windows are failing?" Reace stated that the problem has only been seen in the small windows.

I had three out of four fail. Two of these had not separated. However they were starting to delaminate. Fortunately, I found them before the warranty from Hehr expired.

I told Reace that I believed the reported failure rate is probably low. There are likely more of these windows starting to delaminate but as they have yet to fully delaminate and separate, it is not apparent to the owner .

[cpaharley2008]

I do the calculation differently. since the little windows are suspect and there are on the average 2 in the Escape,. Escape is now producing 2 units/day or 10 a week or 500/year thus 1000 small windows @ 1% would equal 10 failed windows out of a years production.

[Tin]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

I do the calculation differently. since the little windows are suspect and there are on the average 2 in the Escape,. Escape is now producing 2 units/day or 10 a week or 500/year thus 1000 small windows @ 1% would equal 10 failed windows out of a years production.

LOL, Jim
Your math is completely wrong! but I love it! reminds me of my tax guy.
" Numbers are great! knowing whats allowable Priceless!" I never question his numbers.

[suncoastdancers]

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

I do the calculation differently. since the little windows are suspect and there are on the average 2 in the Escape,. Escape is now producing 2 units/day or 10 a week or 500/year thus 1000 small windows @ 1% would equal 10 failed windows out of a years production.

That would depend on whether you believe Tammy was quoting 1% of all frameless windows, regardless of size, or 1% of the small windows. I was not present when she made the comment. However I have inferred the former, not the later.

Needless to say, 3 out of 4 windows on my unit would make me statistically an "outlier" in either case. And regrettably, not on the GOOD side!

[sclifrickson]

Originally Posted by suncoastdancers

That would depend on whether you believe Tammy was quoting 1% of all frameless windows, regardless of size, or 1% of the small windows. I was not present when she made the comment. However I have inferred the former, not the later.

We all know about about assumptions...

[Bakes99]

Originally Posted by suncoastdancers

That would depend on whether you believe Tammy was quoting 1% of all frameless windows, regardless of size, or 1% of the small windows. I was not present when she made the comment. However I have inferred the former, not the later.

Needless to say, 3 out of 4 windows on my unit would make me statistically an "outlier" in either case. And regrettably, not on the GOOD side!

I'm grateful you posted the pic of your 5 spot between the panes. I would have been on the hook for that kitchen window after October. It wasn't obvious that it was separating. Thanks.

I will say the trailer has been stellar other than this issue, which they are standing behind. After November, guess i'm on my own.

[padlin]

Seems to be the way it goes. You get the best trailer we can find for the $, and there is that one thing. In our case it's the fridge, in yours it's the small window. Who does one fault the items manufacturer or the trailers? Either way it's still a grey cloud.

On the other hand, my Starcraft was a full blown thunderstorm.

[suncoastdancers]

Originally Posted by padlin

Seems to be the way it goes. You get the best trailer we can find for the $, and there is that one thing. In our case it's the fridge, in yours it's the small window. Who does one fault the items manufacturer or the trailers? Either way it's still a grey cloud.

On the other hand, my Starcraft was a full blown thunderstorm.

I cannot fault ETI as they have been very attentive to the repair. I lay the problem on Hehr. I feel that their warranty of 12 months is too short. Apart from this, I am quite pleased with the overall quality of the Escape.

Sorry to hear about your fridge. I guess we can't expect to be problem free forever, just that we get fair treatment when they arise. This is our 6th camper in 25 years. Our trouble list to date (excluding the Escape) includes a faulty fridge control board, corroded fridge evaporator, corroded hot water tank, leaking air conditioner, faulty furnace ignitor control board, two failed bearing packs (same unit), two failed power converters and a burst mercury pilot switch in the oven. Two of these items on a used unit that just passed the dealer's "thorough pre-sales inspection check". Yeah, right?!

[rjbny]

Is there any way to identify the windows that were made in the Hehr factory that had the quality control problems?

[suncoastdancers]

Originally Posted by rjbny

Is there any way to identify the windows that were made in the Hehr factory that had the quality control problems?

Reace did not mention this when I spoke to him last week.

The three failed windows had the Hehr mark on the glass. The three replacement windows have LCI (Lippert Components) markings. LCI acquired Hehr in February 2018. I don't know whether the replacement windows were made in the same factory.

If I were to guess, Hehr = old stock, LCI = new stock. I still have one Hehr small window installed in my Escape. Fingers crossed!

[richardr]

On our 21 bathroom window, the closing mechanism pulled off the inner window. As far as I can tell, the 2 window panes are still sealed together. I reattached the closing mechanism to the window with VHB tape. We will see if this holds.

[wetzk]

Originally Posted by richardr

On our 21 bathroom window, the closing mechanism pulled off the inner window. As far as I can tell, the 2 window panes are still sealed together. I reattached the closing mechanism to the window with VHB tape. We will see if this holds.

Mine did that and I did the same thing. Then the window delaminated and was replaced. I kept the window in case I ever needed parts and the seal has completely failed but the VHB tape is still holding fine.