|
|
11-22-2015, 12:08 PM
|
#1
|
Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico
Trailer: 2013 Escape 19
Posts: 42
|
FullTiming-propane not happy with cold weather
Hi,
I am full timing for the next 2 months in Seattle. Living in the Escape was the easiest solution for staying to complete a job this winter and keeping my dog with me. I have had some interesting times so far, but have come across my first big challenge that I can't seem to puzzle out.
I have discovered that the last 3 nights when it has dipped below freezing and stayed that way until morning, that my furnace, hot water heater and stove do not want to work. Once morning comes and the temperature gets near freezing, I start getting low volume flow to the stove. Then after it gets a few degrees warmer, my hot water heater works and then eventually the furnace.
My dual tanks are full (just filled the empty one 2 days ago) and I am hooked up to city water and electricity. Any thoughts as to why my propane would slow it's flow with cold and then increase with the warmth?
Thanks for any help,
Kelly
|
|
|
11-22-2015, 01:12 PM
|
#2
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Trailer: 2016 19 / Toyota 4Runner 2019
Posts: 343
|
Propane problem
Propane boils at -44F so I don't think your issue is cold tanks. I had a house at Silver Star heated with propane from an outside uninsulated bullet tank and it worked just fine at minus 20 to heat the whole house.
I would suspect the regulator freezing up maybe water in the lines or a bad batch of propane that has been known to happen. Try pouring some hot water on the regulator and see if that makes it start working.
__________________
Hugh
|
|
|
11-22-2015, 01:41 PM
|
#3
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Trailer: 2017 Escape 5.0 TA
Posts: 15,545
|
I agree with Hugh, that it could likely be something to do with the regulator not working right when it cools, as propane should work just fine at those temps.
If you are only dipping below freezing, and it is warming up good during the day, you have no worries regarding things freezing up bad. Heck, those are the weather conditions for much of our camping.
__________________
2017 Escape 5.0 TA
2015 Ford F150 Lariat 3.5L EcoBoost
2009 Escape 19 (previous)
“Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be.” — Abraham Lincoln
|
|
|
11-22-2015, 01:58 PM
|
#4
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: O town, British Columbia
Trailer: 2014 Escape 21 "Lightning"
Posts: 1,467
|
Assuming its not the regulator, can you wrap tanks in old blankets to insulate them?
0C happens to be the boiling point of butane which is often/always mixed into the LPG. High enough percentage would cause those problems too.
|
|
|
11-22-2015, 02:18 PM
|
#5
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Denison, Texas
Trailer: 2015 21'; 2011 19' sold; 4Runner; ph ninezero3 327-27ninefour
Posts: 5,136
|
Going below freezing can do major damage so you need to figure this out right away. Are you at a campground with a host? You can ask him or anyone to look at your propane regulator and connections to see if they see anything wrong. Would also e-mail and leave messages with ETI and tell them you are in below freezing temps. You need to get the forecast to see how far below you are going the next nights.
__________________
Cathy. Floating Cloud
"Live in the sunshine, swim the sea, drink the wild air.... "
Emerson
|
|
|
11-22-2015, 02:59 PM
|
#6
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: North Van., British Columbia
Trailer: 2014 Escape 19, sold; 2019 Escape 21, Sept. 2019
Posts: 8,797
|
Since you have power a short term solution would be to put a simple light bulb near the regulator. Doesn't take much, even a 40 watt bulb in a cheap reading lamp (to protect the bulb) from Walmart would do. I use light bulbs in various ways to provide a very small amount of targeted heat.
Ron
|
|
|
11-22-2015, 04:24 PM
|
#7
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by hughharden
Propane boils at -44F so I don't think your issue is cold tanks.
|
I agree. While propane pressure in the tank falls with lower temperatures, there's still lots at just below freezing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hughharden
I would suspect the regulator freezing up maybe water in the lines or a bad batch of propane that has been known to happen. Try pouring some hot water on the regulator and see if that makes it start working.
|
Again, I agree. There is often a bit of water in propane, and it can block the regulator by freezing. It happens at the regulator because where the propane pressure is reduced there is a chilling effect, so that's the cold point... which can be much colder than the surrounding air. Thick frost often forms on a regulator in conditions under which nothing else is getting frosty.
I have experienced this, and if I have AC power I use a hot air gun (industrial version of a hair dryer) to thaw - it's neater and perhaps faster than pouring hot water.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BCnomad
Assuming its not the regulator, can you wrap tanks in old blankets to insulate them?
|
If there is a lack of propane pressure due to low temperature, this would just make the situation worse. Conversion of liquid propane to vapour in the tank absorbs heat, chilling the tank contents; insulating it would just prevent it from absorbing heat from the surrounding air. This is opposite from wrapping blankets around yourself: your body is a heat source, so insulation helps to keep the heat in (the propane tanks have no source of heat to keep in).
Quote:
Originally Posted by BCnomad
0C happens to be the boiling point of butane which is often/always mixed into the LPG. High enough percentage would cause those problems too.
|
Good point - what is sold as "propane" is actually LPG, which means Liquified Petroleum Gas ( not Liquid Propane Gas) and it is not pure propane. Butane content will reduce vapour pressure, but I hope even in relatively mild Seattle there isn't enough butane to be a problem.
Propane Butane Mix - Evaporation Pressure
|
|
|
11-22-2015, 04:26 PM
|
#8
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Brantingham Lake, New York
Trailer: 2001 coachmen
Posts: 274
|
Depending on the propane mixture...The regulator will freeze if the line isn't being used often. This happens on our line to our generator.
To solve it..we loosely wrapped the regulator (vent clear). We also have put a five gallon bucket over it. Prior to that....If it freezes, we use a hair dryer.
|
|
|
11-22-2015, 04:33 PM
|
#9
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Denison, Texas
Trailer: 2015 21'; 2011 19' sold; 4Runner; ph ninezero3 327-27ninefour
Posts: 5,136
|
Kelly, have you ever used a soapy solution to test for leaks of propane? When at an RV place some time, you can also have them do a simple propane pressure test.
The folks above have indicated what your problem might be, however, with any propane problem, it might be good to assume a leak and act accordingly until the problem is found. You can test for leaks.
__________________
Cathy. Floating Cloud
"Live in the sunshine, swim the sea, drink the wild air.... "
Emerson
|
|
|
11-22-2015, 05:37 PM
|
#10
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Arvada, Colorado
Trailer: 2015 E'21 - 'Velocity'. Tow: Toyota Tacoma V6, 4X4, manual.
Posts: 1,692
|
I can't add much to solve Kelly's problem - but his description seems to indicate a regulator issue, and that in turn prompted me to purchase a spare regulator on EBay a few minutes ago.
If having a spare part in advance has the normal effect on the universe - I will never have a regulator failure...
--
Alan
|
|
|
11-22-2015, 05:40 PM
|
#11
|
Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico
Trailer: 2013 Escape 19
Posts: 42
|
Thanks all for the suggestions. Since I have full hookups I have been leaving my small electric heater plugged in at night and just turning it on in the middle of the night so nothing internally has to get too cold, including me and the dog. However this isn't a long term solution.
I will call a couple of the local camping repair places tomorrow and get some opinions on this. Seems like I need to replace the regulator, that there is somehow moisture involved here and my guess is that it is water since 30F isn't really that cold.
I was way more concerned with my water hose freezing and my non-insulated underside making the trailer floor cold and never even thought about the Lp system when I was weighing the challenges of full timing in freezing temperatures. It is so rare for it to be below freezing temperatures here in Seattle for more than a day or two.
Thanks again,
Kelly
|
|
|
11-22-2015, 05:50 PM
|
#12
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Galesville, Wisconsin
Trailer: 2017 21 "Blue II" & 2017 Highlander XLE (previously 2010 17B "Blue" & 2008 Tacoma)
Posts: 4,233
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanmalk
.
If having a spare part in advance has the normal effect on the universe - I will never have a regulator failure...
--
Alan
|
Alan - that's always been my experience.
__________________
Eric (and Mary who is in no way responsible for anything stupid I post)
"Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance." George Bernard Shaw
|
|
|
11-22-2015, 06:03 PM
|
#13
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Denison, Texas
Trailer: 2015 21'; 2011 19' sold; 4Runner; ph ninezero3 327-27ninefour
Posts: 5,136
|
I was not suggesting an electric heater as we never sleep with ours on or unattended. Those little heaters have been known to cause fires. In this case, hard to say if the electric is more dangerous than the propane since the problem is unknown. Hope you find it soon.
__________________
Cathy. Floating Cloud
"Live in the sunshine, swim the sea, drink the wild air.... "
Emerson
|
|
|
11-22-2015, 09:17 PM
|
#14
|
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Bellingham, Washington
Trailer: 2014 Escape 19
Posts: 49
|
Had this problem with our new 19 early last year. After phone discussions with Reece and some testing, it turned out to be a bad propane regulator. Replaced it with a new one (different brand - Camco, I think - that's the one the dealer in Mesa, AZ happened to have on hand) and have had no problems since. The removal of the old and installation of the new took me all of about fifteen minutes.
|
|
|
11-22-2015, 10:12 PM
|
#15
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Juneau, Alaska
Trailer: 2015 17A - Ready for more Maiden Voyages ....
Posts: 881
|
Well I have another fool proof solution .... get two more dogs and if the temperature really drops ... whistle them in and have a three dog night
Tom
__________________
Consciousness: That confusing time between naps
|
|
|
11-23-2015, 07:35 AM
|
#16
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Burlington, Vermont
Trailer: 2014 17b/ 2012 Chevy Colorado
Posts: 736
|
We too had a similar problem when we picked up our 17b last winter. Solved with new regulator. Since then we have been in temps as low as -20 F without problems. Too bad you didn't order the extra insulation under the trailer. Given that you are in a semi permanent situation you might construct a skirt around the bottom of the trailer which should help with the cold floor somewhat.
|
|
|
11-23-2015, 07:06 PM
|
#17
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 14,935
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Krueger
Replaced it with a new one
...
and have had no problems since.
|
As I mentioned in a previous similar discussion, I have found that after extended use a regulator can accumulate oil, which is a contaminant in propane. This can make it fail to regulate, or more prone to freeze-up. I have taken out a regulator and poured oil out of it, more than once. Having two regulators to swap when required seems like a good idea in cold weather, and one that needs draining and drying out can be a perfectly good spare.
|
|
|
11-23-2015, 07:59 PM
|
#18
|
Site Team
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Portland, Oregon
Trailer: 2014 Escape 5.0 TA
Posts: 11,045
|
I can't help with any suggestions about your propane issue.. I use it so little.
BUT, I have a great solution for an electric portable heater.
I purchased a Vordano Whole Room electric heater for Ten Forward based on an all-molded-towable owner's recommendation. I am 100% satisfied! It's not small, about the size of an oversized basketball. What I like about it, is the fan runs all the time and only the thermostat turns on the heat. No clicking and a fan coming on in the middle of the night. It's more like a quiet white noise machine. And, the fan is quiet.
It wasn't cheap... I've purchased 4 of those crappy things. Cost me about $90 (love Amazon Prime!). I think I'm going to purchase another one for my sticks 'n bricks.
__________________
Donna D.
Ten Forward
2014 Escape 5.0TA
|
|
|
11-24-2015, 12:55 AM
|
#19
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Steveston B.C., British Columbia
Trailer: 2012- 17'B.... 2016 Tacoma SR5 TRD
Posts: 504
|
__________________
I've almost been everywhere man.
Almost been everywhere.....
|
|
|
11-24-2015, 01:32 AM
|
#20
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia
Trailer: 2009 Escape 17B 2020 Toyota Highlander XLE
Posts: 17,136
|
I used to have a wood stove in the living room. And I would be out in the carport cutting 2x4 scrap into suitable lengths for this little stove with my table saw.
One cold morning, it occurred to me that I could use that electricity to power an oil-filled heater, instead of the table saw.
Pulled the stove and donated it to a charity rummage sale.
If you have to plug these propane blankets in, why not just plug in an electric heater?
__________________
What happens to the hole when the cheese is gone?
- Bertolt Brecht
|
|
|
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
» Recent Discussions |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|