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Old 09-06-2018, 09:41 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NCBill View Post
I am pleased with my Champion 3100. I am currently on a trip, used it quite a bit. I was very surprised to see the number of people using noisy open frame generators, even at National Parks. The two NPs I stayed at were more concerned with operating hours than noise.
Operating hours are easy to police for citations, etc. Proof of too much noise would involve having to have an in-calibration sound meter, much more expensive to buy and maintain than a clock.


I once beat a speeding ticket for 4 miles over the 45 mph limit when I demanded to see the radar gun calibration sticker. It had expired several months prior; used my phone to take a picture and mailed it to the court with my explanation.
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Old 09-06-2018, 09:44 PM   #62
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Dual Fuel vs Gas only

NCBill stated that he liked the Champion Dual Fuel unit. I am curious why no one else seemed to think that was a big advantage for an RV Generator. I had a open frame generator for the house and bought a dual fuel because you never know which fuel you may have available. I would think that in an RV that using Propane for generating electricity has got to be a major advantage over a gas only unit. What do people think?
By the way, I used to be in the computer industry and we always said that a difference of 3 db was noticeable while a difference of less than 3 db was not. FYI
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Old 09-06-2018, 10:31 PM   #63
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I would think that in an RV that using Propane for generating electricity has got to be a major advantage over a gas only unit. What do people think?
I think that while propane is a lousy fuel in some ways (hey, there are reasons that cars run on gasoline...), not having to carry gasoline along with everything else would certainly be beneficial. My generator in my motorhome runs on gasoline, but it draws from the motorhome's tank; that's not a reasonable option for a tug and trailer.
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Old 09-07-2018, 05:58 AM   #64
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How long does 20 lbs of propane last running the A/C on a 3000 watt generator?
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Old 09-07-2018, 08:06 AM   #65
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I don't know myself. But when I have seen replies to similar questions it appeared it lasted as long as 2 -3 fill-ups of the gas tank on a small unit like a Honda 2100. So carrying a propane tank versus gas seemed to be one of ease of use (propane is easier to start and doesn't seem to have the same starting issues as the gas engine). Cost is probably higher based on my recollection of the posts I saw.
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Old 09-07-2018, 01:07 PM   #66
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How long does 20 lbs of propane last running the A/C on a 3000 watt generator?
Assuming comparable efficiency, the generator will run as long on 20 pounds of propane as it would on 3.4 US gallons of gasoline. The gasoline would weigh a pound more, but the gasoline container would be much lighter than the empty propane cylinder (which is about 17 pounds).

That doesn't directly answer the question, but if you know how long it runs on a volume of gasoline, it fills in the rest of what you need.

If carrying enough propane is a concern, the 20-pound cylinders could be replaced by 30-pound cylinders... although the bigger cylinders are much more expensive, do not readily come with level gauges, and are not available at those ridiculously expensive fill-by-exchange places.

The energy content (lower heating value) of propane is 19,904 BTU/lb, so that's about 400,000 BTU for the tank full. The corresponding value for gasoline is 116,090 BTU/USgal, so the 20 pounds of propane is equivalent to 3.4 US gallons of gasoline. 3.4 US gal of gasoline at 2.819 kg/gal would weigh 9.7 kg or 21.3 lb
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Old 09-07-2018, 01:12 PM   #67
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Cost is probably higher based on my recollection of the posts I saw.
Propane and gasoline prices are relatively independent. In this area, for at least the past few years, bulk propane has been comparable to in cost to gasoline for the same energy (and the propane price is much more stable), but buying propane in fixed-price 20 pound cylinder fills has been much more expensive than bulk.
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Old 09-08-2018, 09:56 AM   #68
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As I look at it, it seems that the flexibility and possible convenience (and possible safety) factors of using a Dual Fuel unit over a dedicated gas generator might win out. How could you argue that having increased options when it comes to using fuel? You could always use gas it you liked but in a pinch, you can also use propane. When I was buying an open frame unit for emergencies it was a little more money for the dual fuel option. But at the time, is seemed well worth it. I've got to believe that since RVs travel with both fuels typically (and especially with propane), that the Dual Fuel would be a better option. I do think that propane would cost more though.
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Old 09-11-2018, 09:56 AM   #69
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Considering a generator to keep on hand for emergency use here at home, at 6700 feet altitude, and to keep in trailer as backup. Like the Westinghouse but before I pull that trigger thought I would address a key issue I read somewhere. Talking about performance at higher altitudes.

So I sent an email to Camping World. Here's their response:

SKU Name: Westinghouse iGen2500 Portable Inverter Generator, 2200 Running Watts/2500 Peak Watts, Gas Powered
SKU Number: 107426

Question: Does this generator run an RV air conditioner when altitude is above 7 thousand feet? I heard it don't.

Answer:

Thank you for contacting Camping World!
No. Even at sea level a generator with an output of at least 2800 watts is suggested for a 13.5K BTU air conditioner with a hard start kit installed.
Generally once you get past 5,000 ft., a generator would have to be modified for high altitude use otherwise performance will really suffer.
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Old 09-11-2018, 10:52 AM   #70
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Myron: This is what Honda says. Your trouble is once modified the generator shouldn't be run at low altitudes without being converted back. This seems awfully inconvenient.
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Old 09-11-2018, 11:23 AM   #71
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It seems that more and more of the larger generators (7K+) are getting fuel injection engines, which should take care of the altitude problem if/once fuel injection makes it down into the smaller models, shouldn't it?
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Old 09-11-2018, 11:47 AM   #72
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indeed, rejetting is a fact of life for high elevation use of carburetor engines. if you use sea level jets at high elevations, the engine runs too rich, if you use high elevation jets at sea level, it runs too lean.
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Old 09-11-2018, 12:07 PM   #73
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It seems that more and more of the larger generators (7K+) are getting fuel injection engines, which should take care of the altitude problem if/once fuel injection makes it down into the smaller models, shouldn't it?
Yes, it works for motor vehicles, and it will work for small equipment... eventually. A 7 kW generator would have the smallest engine I've heard of with fuel injection (although I just found an off-brand 4 kW generator with fuel injection); even at Kawasaki (which seems to have more fuel injected engines than most) they start at about 25 horsepower.
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Old 09-11-2018, 03:41 PM   #74
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Reciprocal engines on aircraft have fuel air adjustment, for a smoother running engine.

I also had a Land Rover vehicle years ago that had a fuel air mixture control.

As with my airplane, I could , on the Land Rover, get a few more miles an hour from the engine.
Now if some one would make a small generator engine with a fuel air mixture adjustment, the engine may run a better at altitude.

One thing about generators, you will not get out more than is put in.

Also another question? There is a lot of discussion on generators.
Are we talking about starting load, or running load, when discussing the output required.
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Old 09-11-2018, 04:23 PM   #75
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"....Myron: Honda says....Your trouble is once modified the generator shouldn't be run at low altitudes without being converted back. This seems awfully inconvenient."

Quartzsite, AZ is in La Paz County, Arizona, population 3,677. The altitude is 879 feet.
Hmmm.
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Old 09-11-2018, 10:07 PM   #76
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Now if some one would make a small generator engine with a fuel air mixture adjustment, the engine may run a better at altitude.
Yes, but it probably wouldn't be possible to sell a small engine in the U.S., or at least in some states, with a user-adjustable mixture... because people would set it too rich and increase exhaust emissions.

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Reciprocal engines on aircraft have fuel air adjustment, for a smoother running engine.
...
As with my airplane, I could , on the Land Rover, get a few more miles an hour from the engine.
As I recall, this often led to the less competent and less responsible fuel-conscious pilots damaging aircraft engines with excessively lean mixture settings. Some flying clubs and others renting aircraft even rented (and maybe still rent) aircraft only "wet" (fixed price per hour including whatever fuel you use) to keep pilots from destroying engines to save fuel.

I think that average drivers and average small equipment operators are not really both capable of and willing to properly manage fuel mixture.
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Old 09-11-2018, 10:23 PM   #77
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Yes, but it probably wouldn't be possible to sell a small engine in the U.S., or at least in some states, with a user-adjustable mixture... because people would set it too rich and increase exhaust emissions. ...
But my old chain saw and string trimmer both have operator adjustable high speed and low speed jets, so why not my generator? Maybe it's precisely because my chain saw and string trimmer are so old - from before regulation mania...
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