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Old 09-28-2015, 01:29 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by jxoco View Post
the schematic shows the wide blade, neutral, of the AC receptacle connected to the ground at point 14.

And I think you missed a question from someone,
" with the EMS bypassed but hooked up to shore power, does the EMS chatter?"
When connected to shore power in bypass mode, the EMS does not chatter.
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Old 09-28-2015, 03:04 PM   #12
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I spoke with Progressive Industries this morning. They were very helpful but did suggest that in their experience, the Honda generators were a better choice (even though the EMS unit is not really designed for use with portable generators). They explained that under load, the Yamaha was putting out a modified sine wave (choppy power) and that was causing the surge protector to kick in. The surge protector is always active, even in bypass mode.

I tried out my neighbour's Honda and it worked just fine in bypass mode. The Yamaha dealer very graciously exchanged my Yamaha for a new Honda and I'm all smiles

The Honda is smoother, has cleaner power (nice sine wave ), and best of all runs my air conditioner
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Old 09-28-2015, 03:44 PM   #13
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Great to hear.
What Honda did he switch you to? a 2000 or a 3000?

I have a honda 3000, but it has the floating ground so the EMS won't use the power from it. I have bought the parts to make up a little pigtail wire for it to fool it into working but I haven't lugged the generator back out to the trailer to see how it works yet.
We have done fine without it so far, or trips have been short enough I guess.
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Old 09-28-2015, 03:54 PM   #14
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Great to hear.
What Honda did he switch you to? a 2000 or a 3000?

I have a honda 3000, but it has the floating ground so the EMS won't use the power from it. I have bought the parts to make up a little pigtail wire for it to fool it into working but I haven't lugged the generator back out to the trailer to see how it works yet.
We have done fine without it so far, or trips have been short enough I guess.
I got the 2000. You should have lots of power with the 3000. The only reason we need it is to the run the AC when its really hot and we are boondocking. Our dog gets heatstroke just thinking about the sun. Hope he appreciates the effort we go to in keeping him cool. There's that and our home is susceptible to power outages. With a 2000 watt jenny we can alternate between freezer, fridge, and misc. appliances.
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Old 09-28-2015, 04:19 PM   #15
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I got the 2000. You should have lots of power with the 3000.
There's that and our home is susceptible to power outages. With a 2000 watt jenny we can alternate between freezer, fridge, and misc. appliances.
Yes we have the 3000 for a cabin we have where the power can be out for a day or two whenever a wind blows hard.
I see in my dometic manual that they suggest a 3500 watt generator for my A/C.
The manual states that is draws 12.4 amps.
It is a model 600312 331c according to the sticker in the cabinet above the fridge.
Sounds like yours is better suited to running from a generator.
I'm going to have to try mine and see whats up. I always thought that I would need one of those slow-start kick start things added to it.

Good to hear your good to go. A/C can really lift your spirits on those dog days like we had this summer...
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Old 09-28-2015, 11:08 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by davescape View Post
I spoke with Progressive Industries this morning. They were very helpful but did suggest that in their experience, the Honda generators were a better choice (even though the EMS unit is not really designed for use with portable generators). They explained that under load, the Yamaha was putting out a modified sine wave (choppy power) and that was causing the surge protector to kick in.:
I'm glad that this is resolved satisfactorily, but the explanation from Progressive Industries doesn't quite make sense, since the Yamaha EF2000iS was an inverter generator. These units maintain constant output power frequency despite variable engine speed by building the sine wave output with a conventional modern inverter - the inverter is the source of the output power at all times. If it is the choppy "modified sine wave" under heavy load, it should be even at very light load as well. If it is a decent sine wave at any load, it should maintain that even under heavy load. It's normally a decent sine wave because it is built in many steps per 1/60 second cycle, not just four time steps like the basic "modified sine wave" units.

This test showed that all the inverter generators tested (which includes the EF2000iS) maintained good sine wave output at both idle and full output - not perfect but far from the coarsely stepped "modified sine wave" of cheap DC-powered inverters. I was expecting to find poor voltage regulation in the Yamaha, but it never goes over the desired voltage... although it does take a long time to ramp up when the load is increased. I could see the EMS dropping out due to low voltage if active when the air conditioner is started, but presumably not if in bypass.
Product Review: A Look at Gasoline Powered Inverter Generators
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Old 09-29-2015, 01:19 AM   #17
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One thing I noticed in that report that I posted: "full load" in the test was 1600 watts for the EF2000iS. If pushed to the limit of what it can briefly produce, the output might not be so nice... but it's still not going to turn into something looking like the crude modified sine wave.
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Old 09-29-2015, 10:03 PM   #18
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I'm glad that this is resolved satisfactorily, but the explanation from Progressive Industries doesn't quite make sense, since the Yamaha EF2000iS was an inverter generator. These units maintain constant output power frequency despite variable engine speed by building the sine wave output with a conventional modern inverter - the inverter is the source of the output power at all times. If it is the choppy "modified sine wave" under heavy load, it should be even at very light load as well. If it is a decent sine wave at any load, it should maintain that even under heavy load. It's normally a decent sine wave because it is built in many steps per 1/60 second cycle, not just four time steps like the basic "modified sine wave" units.

This test showed that all the inverter generators tested (which includes the EF2000iS) maintained good sine wave output at both idle and full output - not perfect but far from the coarsely stepped "modified sine wave" of cheap DC-powered inverters. I was expecting to find poor voltage regulation in the Yamaha, but it never goes over the desired voltage... although it does take a long time to ramp up when the load is increased. I could see the EMS dropping out due to low voltage if active when the air conditioner is started, but presumably not if in bypass.
Product Review: A Look at Gasoline Powered Inverter Generators
Brian, the test file that you found is what I was expecting from Yamaha, that's why I purchased it, but I didn't seem to get those results. Perhaps there is something inherent in the EMS design that's conflicting with Yamaha. I completely lack the technical skills to analyse this beyond simple observations. ...but I could put a few chords to "sine sine everywhere a sine. Blocking out the scenery breaking my mind. Do this don't do that. Can't you read the sine".
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