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Old 09-26-2015, 06:05 PM   #1
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Generator + EMS + Air Conditioning = ?

Just purchased a 2015 Yamaha EF2000iS Inverter Generator. The wiring diagram in the back of the manual shows the neutral and ground connected and my factory installed Progressive Industries EMS concurred and gave me no error codes upon connection to the generator (EO code, 125 volts)> I believe that previous generation Yamaha Inverter Generators had a floating neutral, this no longer seems to be the case. With the EMS enabled, I get a low voltage warning and a disconnect when the Air Con is turned on (Dometic Penguin II rated at 10.5amps). I was expecting that. When I disable the EMS via the control switch, however, I get a wild loud clicking from the EMS when I turn on the Air Con. My understanding is that only the surge suppressor should still be operational with the EMS disabled. I don't think I'm getting a voltage surge however. With all the racket going on, I have no idea if the compressor is starting up on the air con. That's another issue. Any idea what's going? By the way I've tried the generator with both auto throttle mode and full throttle mode.
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Old 09-26-2015, 06:34 PM   #2
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The generator is a seperately derived system . The neutral of the generator is not intentionally
grounded to an earth ground thusly it is hypothetically floating .The neutral is just a midpoint tap of the generator windings. Utility power is intentionally grounded to limit the voltage . The neutral is grounded at the utilities transformer and at the service entrance. In a three phase
WYE connected system the voltage from the line to the center point will vary with the load if the center point is not grounded to establish a reference point. Probably more than you needed or cared to know
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Old 09-26-2015, 06:47 PM   #3
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When I operated my Penguin with the Yamaha 2000 it operated fine, as long as I turned off the EMS. Have you tried the same with hooked up to electric and EMS bypass?
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Old 09-26-2015, 07:11 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve dunham View Post
The generator is a seperately derived system . The neutral of the generator is not intentionally
grounded to an earth ground thusly it is hypothetically floating .
Steve, that seems to be a different definition of floating than what I've encountered to date. Usually what I hear is that if the neutral is bonded to the frame, then its not floating. This is apparently typical of most construction type generators. Inverter generators, however, typically do not connect the neutral to the frame, and are described as floating.

My generator, however, does have the neutral bonded to the frame(so says the sticker and the schematic) but also has a sticker saying its a floating system I guess that's because it has a plastic body sitting on rubber bumpers.

In any event, it does not seem to be the source of my problem since my EMS is perfectly happy with the wiring configuration. The positive and the neutral and the ground all are in perfect harmony with Progressive Industries definition of good clean well organized power. It seems I don't need any tricky grounding modifications.
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Old 09-26-2015, 07:16 PM   #5
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When I operated my Penguin with the Yamaha 2000 it operated fine, as long as I turned off the EMS. Have you tried the same with hooked up to electric and EMS bypass?
Jim, In bypass mode the EMS starting freaking out. CLACK!! CLACK!! CLACK!! CLACK!!..... Sounded like a cat in the rad fan.
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Old 09-26-2015, 07:26 PM   #6
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When I operated my Penguin with the Yamaha 2000 it operated fine?
Jim, did your air con start up fine with the generator in eco mode or did you have to run it full speed?
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Old 09-27-2015, 11:18 AM   #7
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I wonder if they have changed bonding with the 2015 version. The on line wiring diagram still shows no bond between the ground & neutral. Since the EMS does not show the "no ground) fault, it appears that they did bond the new version, at least in Canada.

In any case, I agree that with the bypass switch on the Progressive Industries EMS activated, the relay or contractor should not be chattering. I would contact Progressive Industries for suggestions since it appears that it is still dropping out due to low voltage.
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Old 09-27-2015, 08:32 PM   #8
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I wonder if they have changed bonding with the 2015 version. The on line wiring diagram still shows no bond between the ground & neutral. Since the EMS does not show the "no ground) fault, it appears that they did bond the new version, at least in Canada.

In any case, I agree that with the bypass switch on the Progressive Industries EMS activated, the relay or contractor should not be chattering. I would contact Progressive Industries for suggestions since it appears that it is still dropping out due to low voltage.
My manual is dated 2014. Not sure if the bonding is a Canada only thing. BTW, just got back from a day trip south of the 49th Parallel: Point Roberts. Apparently the only community in the USA that has gas prices posted in Canadian dollars per litre. School children there have to pass through two borders, twice a day, in order to attend school.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Generator Schematic.pdf (283.8 KB, 7 views)
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Old 09-27-2015, 10:22 PM   #9
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the schematic shows the wide blade, neutral, of the AC receptacle connected to the ground at point 14.

And I think you missed a question from someone,
" with the EMS bypassed but hooked up to shore power, does the EMS chatter?"
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Old 09-27-2015, 11:23 PM   #10
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The schematic I found on page 42 of the owner's manual I linked above does not show the bonding at point 14. The drawing # for the one I found is 7DK10 while the # for Dave's is 7DK200. I suspect it is a Canadian difference since his diagram is also missing point 6, the generator paralleling connections. I believe the paring of generators is not allowed in Canada.

According to the manual for the EMS, you are correct that with the bypass switch on, ALL features except surge protection should be turned off: "ByPass | This switch is located on the remote display and allows the user to bypass the EMS in the event of failure, thus allowing AC power into the RV. This does not disable the surge protection portion of the EMS; however, all other features are disabled."

Again, I suggest checking with Progressive Industries if the contractor is chattering when bypassed. I have used the bypass to run my trailer during a low voltage situation (not running the AC or anything that could be damaged by low voltage), and did not have any chattering.
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