Hehr Dual-pane Window Failure

[Chotch]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

True, but the nuance is that Gary implied that Hehr/ETI wouldn't reimburse in full. He said,"...and so far I have not been able to find a place that is willing to do the work for whatever Hehr is willing to pay them." This implies that a limit was set for the work and if exceeded that it will not be reimbursed. It is probably just a misunderstanding and I'm sure that when he provides reasonable quotes, speaks with Reace and submits for warranty payment from ETI that this will be covered in full just like others have said was done for them. We know full well that ETI stands behind their product. Their customer service after the sale is clearly a big part of their continued success.

I think it should be clarified as to what needs replacing, the glass can be replaced with very little effort and pretty sure I would be able to do it with my Leatherman multitool.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Chotch

I think it should be clarified as to what needs replacing, the glass can be replaced with very little effort and pretty sure I would be able to do it with my Leatherman multitool.

The original post says he is being shipped a window from Hehr. That leads me to believe this is a full window replacement.

[thiggins]

I've had similar issues with car warranty work. The Mfg. comes up with their book/documented estimate of the labor hours involved in the repairs, then won't pay anything beyond that. The problem is these estimates are ( according to the tech's that actually do the work ) pretty useless and jokingly too low. Unless the dealership is desperate for work ( beware ), they won't even take the warranty work. It's a conundrum.

[Chotch]

Originally Posted by rubicon327

The original post says he is being shipped a window from Hehr. That leads me to believe this is a full window replacement.

Why could it not just be the glass opening part? If the window in the car is broke you don't replace the door, just the window. I may be wrong, but i think thats what he's going to get.

[rubicon327]

Originally Posted by Chotch

Why could it not just be the glass opening part? If the window in the car is broke you don't replace the door, just the window. I may be wrong, but i think thats what he's going to get.

Maybe. I will stop speculating now and hopefully Gary weighs back in with what he receives and how it ultimately gets resolved.

[Chotch]

Originally Posted by thiggins

I've had similar issues with car warranty work. The Mfg. comes up with their book/documented estimate of the labor hours involved in the repairs, then won't pay anything beyond that. The problem is these estimates are ( according to the tech's that actually do the work ) pretty useless and jokingly too low. Unless the dealership is desperate for work ( beware ), they won't even take the warranty work. It's a conundrum.

I know a couple of service technicians making very good livings by regularly beating flat rate times.

[LRL]

We had the exact same problem on the rear window of our 2017 Escape 21. Reece had a new window sent to us, and the local mobile RV service guy and I replaced it together. It was for sure a two person job, and I would not have enjoyed doing it without his expertise. It took us well over 1/2 hour. Conceptually, it's pretty simple, but knowing how hard to push, getting screws in the right place, sealing correctly, etc... all worth having a professional do the work, IMHO.

[caddoster]

The estimated 1/2 hour work seems to be a glass only replacement.. as the last time we talked to ETI to replace our front passenger side window (that we broke) I believe the estimated for the whole frame would be 2-ish hour...

[caddoster]

Originally Posted by Chotch

Why could it not just be the glass opening part? If the window in the car is broke you don't replace the door, just the window. I may be wrong, but i think thats what he's going to get.

If it's an opening window (I dont know if that is?) the glass is attached to the opening arm on the window frame which you have to either unscrew or drill out. (screw vs rivet depending on which Hehr factory made it), it might also be easier to send the whole window assembly. We got ours as a whole window too.

[Brian B-P]

Originally Posted by thiggins

I've had similar issues with car warranty work. The Mfg. comes up with their book/documented estimate of the labor hours involved in the repairs, then won't pay anything beyond that. The problem is these estimates are ( according to the tech's that actually do the work ) pretty useless and jokingly too low. Unless the dealership is desperate for work ( beware ), they won't even take the warranty work. It's a conundrum.

Some techs may complain about this, and it may vary by brand, but in general automotive book rates are based on the time required for a competent tech using hand tools to complete the job. Of course some individual cases are more difficult than average, but some are easier; the more important factor is that no one in a dealership works without an array of air tools and specialty tools... and often taking shortcuts. In my own repairs, I can hit the book rates (especially for brake and suspension work, which is most of what I've done) if there isn't something particularly stuck or stubborn... and I'm an amateur with hand tools. The mechanics I've known say that the expectation by their employers is that they will bill more "hours" of work in a shift than there are actual hours in the shift, every day.

I knew a guy who had a story about this (many years ago): he was a journeyman mechanic, but had never worked in a dealership before. He started in one, and as the new guy got stuck with air conditioning installations (which were available as a dealer-installed option back then). The cars were new so they were easy to work on, but it was tedious and he was having trouble making the targeted rate of work... then someone asked him why he didn't have a 1/4" drive air ratchet. It turns out that all those awkwardly placed screws and bolts under the dash were taking a lot of time, and he had no problem beating the book rate once he bought that little air ratchet. Techs who know what they're doing and are properly equipped (which is a substantial investment) routinely beat the book times.

When the shop says "$120 per hour", they mean typically that when the book says one hour, they will do it in 45 minutes and charge $135 for the hour plus an "hour" worth of "shop supplies".

In my experience, auto dealerships are happy to do warranty work, for which they charge (to the manufacturer) full retail shop rates and manufacturer's suggested list parts prices. Recalls are similar - they pester the customer to get the work done, because it is income for them.

[cpaharley2008]

I just looked at my Escape which has the new style opening thermal windows. Other than the Escape window (road side rear) which is the same window that was on my 2012, 2014 in that the glass swings out on a hinge attached along the top. very easy to replace, glass only. The other windows, rear and front dinette all open at the top and easily removed with the one point of attachment. The frame is inside and would not need to be replaced. The issue is (1) how hard is it to remove the top hinge and the opening scissor mechanism. There are 2 small windows, bath and kitchen that have the hinge in the window middle, with the top fixed, that may create a harder removal but the op said it was the opening window in the loft which should have just the top hinge and the opening mechanism. My guess is Chotch is correct, since the frame is not integral to the window as the older slider style.

[thoer]

Originally Posted by Fox hunt

i don't understand why these issue end up in stupid arguments. They are posted so other trailer owners are aware of the problem and understand their options in getting the repair done if they need it. Also to assist the owners in doing their own work if they want to do their own repairs. i have never heard of ETI refusing to assist ( with the warranty on the item such as the refrigerator warranty ) or pay for warranty covered repairs/replacements. I'm sure they will in this instant too. If my windows fail i would not do my own repair but i have no worries about the company standing behind their product. No one likes to have their brand new trailer have these kinds of issues but sometimes things go wrong its how the company responds to the issues that matters.

Well said, Kate!

[Chotch]

Originally Posted by caddoster

If it's an opening window (I dont know if that is?) the glass is attached to the opening arm on the window frame which you have to either unscrew or drill out. (screw vs rivet depending on which Hehr factory made it), it might also be easier to send the whole window assembly. We got ours as a whole window too.

I thought that the non opening thermal windows had a 1 piece glass window where as opening had a split. That’s why I assumed ( I’m waiting for it) it was an opening window.

[Jim Bennett]

The loft windows in the new model 5.0TA each have two dual glazed awning windows.

My first thought is that it must be a single unit, and maybe just changing the glass might be a better option.

Still, all our speculating will mean squat really. I will wait to hear what the final decision and outcome is with the OP and Escape.

[Chotch]

When someone posts a problem it really helps to attach some pics. It would help to cut down on a lot of speculation🙂

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by Chotch

When someone posts a problem it really helps to attach some pics. It would help to cut down on a lot of speculation🙂

In most cases I would agree, but in this case where it is one failed sealed window, all you will see is moisture between the panes.

[Chotch]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

In most cases I would agree, but in this case where it is one failed sealed window, all you will see is moisture between the panes.

I would know if it was an opening or not😁 This would eliminate half of the speculation.

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by Chotch

I would know if it was an opening or not😁 This would eliminate half of the speculation.

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

The loft windows in the new model 5.0TA each have two dual glazed awning windows.

I had cleared that up. I thought it was only my wife who tuned me out.

[Chotch]

Originally Posted by Jim Bennett

I had cleared that up. I thought it was only my wife who tuned me out.

🤔 Actually I hang on your every word 😄
I figured early on it was an opening window. Assumptions on this forum seems to get one in hot water so we had to wait till post # 54 to get your confirmation. 😬

[gmchamplin]

I really didn't mean to generate this much excitement, I was just looking for some advice. Thank you to those who offered some - I believe it was all good.

I spoke with Dustin at ETI, and have corresponded with him by email. He has been very sympathetic and supportive.

He told me that the repair was simple and I could probably do it myself. He did not mention replacing the frame, that was my assumption. I do not yet have a good understanding of what the repair is. If it is possible to replace only the glass then that is probably what is needed.

Dustin was very clear in his first email:
Or you can find an Authorized RV service department near you that will install it for you. But for this option please note that Hehr will only allow one hour Removal and reinstallation of the new window, which is a lot of time to do this.

The first place I called told me that they would not work directly with Hehr because they had had problems getting paid in the past and required two hours to replace a window.

The second place I called told me they would not do warranty work. I saw a trend and became concerned.

Today I called more places and found one that I believe I can work with. I now have choices. When I see the replacement window and understand the repair better, I will decide if I want to try it myself.

Again, thank you all for your advice.