Help - propane alarm keeps beeping

[steve dunham]

The batteries may well be the culprit but why ?
Is it the type of battery ? ,because that same battery is used in thousands of Escape's without issue.
Is the converter or solar charger defective and overcharging or cooking the batteries ?
Is the battery compartment properly sealed and vented.
Is the cause something the OP has overlooked or failed to mention or is unaware of ?

I guess before I spent $600 or $ 800 on AGM batteries hoping that that they will fix the problem , I would want to know what the source of the problem truly is.
I suppose one could take the easy , inexpensive route and just disconnect the detector but that's not the road I would take.

[Bill and Earline]

I've noticed here at the rally that the propane detector in newer 21's and 5.0'shas been re-located away from the battery compartment and is now
under the fridge. Also it's a different model or brand.
Installing a new one and disabling the old one seems to be a less expensive option. They are different sizes and shapes.
Bill

[Dave Walter]

We replaced our propane detector twice in first two years, as it was going off at random times. First worried about propane leaks, or gas coming off the batteries (which are located inside the dinette bench), but also wondered if off gassing inside the new trailer may have contributed. In any case we didn't make any changes other than new propane detectors and it has been functioning properly for the past year. I think there may be some overly sensitive detectors out there.

[Donna D.]

Originally Posted by vfarsch

A toggle switch sounds like a really good idea to install as well...especially for the middle of the night alarm!

I captured these images elsewhere... and they're from a Casita. I too plan on installing a toggle switch.

[Donna D.]

And the rest of the pics.

[padlin]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

The batteries may well be the culprit but why ?
Is it the type of battery ? ,because that same battery is used in thousands of Escape's without issue.
Is the converter or solar charger defective and overcharging or cooking the batteries ?
Is the battery compartment properly sealed and vented.
Is the cause something the OP has overlooked or failed to mention or is unaware of ?

I guess before I spent $600 or $ 800 on AGM batteries hoping that that they will fix the problem , I would want to know what the source of the problem truly is.
I suppose one could take the easy , inexpensive route and just disconnect the detector but that's not the road I would take.

My non professional thoughts.

For one the battery box does not have a great seal on it, just 1/4"x 1" foam held down by a 1x2 run across the box in turn held down by a couple long bolts.

The venting is also suspect, it has a single vent tube roughly midway in the back of the box. There is no room to add a top vent. I've looked at it every which way and can see no way to improve this.

I've only had the alarm go off when the charge rate from the solar panels is high, in my controllers (Bogart) case at 15.3v during Equalize. It's rare that it goes into Equalize, you can smell it as well as see the voltage level up there when it does.

I brought it down to 14.8v roughly a year ago and have not had it reoccur. I also vacuum it periodically, the alarm that is.

[C&G in FL]

Originally Posted by steve dunham

The batteries may well be the culprit but why ?
Is it the type of battery ? ,because that same battery is used in thousands of Escape's without issue.
Is the converter or solar charger defective and overcharging or cooking the batteries ?
Is the battery compartment properly sealed and vented.
Is the cause something the OP has overlooked or failed to mention or is unaware of ?

I guess before I spent $600 or $ 800 on AGM batteries hoping that that they will fix the problem , I would want to know what the source of the problem truly is.
I suppose one could take the easy , inexpensive route and just disconnect the detector but that's not the road I would take.

Steve,
I can assure you that the cause is battery offgassing; what the source of the problem truly is (because I did extensive testing which included removing the batteries for a month, during which time the alarm did not sound even though I had the valves on the propane tanks open). A day after I reinstalled the batteries, I started getting false alarms again. I have dealt with it and I personally know at least two other 5.0TA owners who have had the same problem. The lid of the battery box is held in place by two wing nuts. The inner perimeter of the lid has a foam weatherstripping sealant. The wing nuts need to be clamped down as tight as possible. The vent tube is attached near the base, but hydrogen being lighter than air rises, exacerbating the problem. Any openings for wires are sealed with conduit seal. It is not a bad idea to seal all the edges of the lid with additional conduit seals but makes checking water levels bimonthly a PITA. That's why I switched to AGM batteries. Didn't care about the cost because I put a high value on uninterrupted sleep and convenience. If I had to pinch pennies, I would have put up with the inconvenience of having to reposition conduit seal around the lid each time I wanted to check battery fluid levels. But the AGMs seem to charge faster; that's an added advantage. The problem is that the rear of the propane alarm protrudes into the same compartment as the battery box. As has been stated, ETI is now positioning them in a different location. Probably not so much of a problem now. But I wouldn't relocate mine as there is a hole in the wall of the dinette bench into which it is installed. I suppose I could find something else to install in the hole and move the propane alarm but why bother.....the problem is solved.

[woodie]

It is not always the batteries that make this a problem.My Escape 15 has the batteries outside.Just back from a three night camping trip.First night was cold,furnace running off and on all night fridge set to operate on propane,all windows and roof vent closed.No problem a really peaceful sleep.Night number two,still cold,furnace running off and on,fridge running on propane,all windows and roof vent closed.Made it until 7 am and the thing started beeping,woke me up out of a coma type sleep.The only difference was I ate pizza for supper and was farting methane all night,and when I went to push the button on the sensor I had a box sitting directly in front of it.I opened the door and windows moved the box and all was well, figuring I new what the problem was to activate it.Night number 3 not so cold , no furnace at all,set to off,fridge set to run on propane,Window and roof vent open a crack,no farting and no box blocking the sensor.All perfect you would think,until 1 am again in a coma sleep state there it went beepppppppp.Now ticked off I used the toggle switch to cut power to all power in the trailer, then went back to bed.All night telling myself the dam thing is going to get neutered as soon as I get home.So happy to find this thread but still not sure what made mine go off.

[Greg A]

Interesting. Dogs farting by the detector is one of the listed causes of false alarms.

[C&G in FL]

I apologize Woodie. When I said "I can assure you" I was referring to the 5.0TA in which the propane detector was less than 3-feet from the battery box in a closed internal compartment, until ETI relocated the installation location for the propane detector. I believe the battery on the 15 is outside, on the tongue? ? ?
When I spoke with the manufacturer of my propane detector (Saf-T-Alert), methane was one of the compounds that would set off the alarm. In addition to doggie farts, the gas emitted by a dog's skin can do it. And they confirmed that a minute amount of hydrogen would definitely trigger the alarm, which was what I had expected after all of my diagnostic tests.
So I guess you have had the same "joy" of being awakened from a deep sleep by the dreaded piercing shriek. Fun, isn't it? Only difference was mine happened three nights in a row, and the propane tanks had been valved off. Initially, that confounded me.

[padlin]

Woodie, yours may be at end of life.

[woodie]

Originally Posted by padlin

Woodie, yours may be at end of life.

Mine is 6 years old ,how long should such a device last .I would think longer than 6 years,used only on camping trips through each summer.

[woodie]

Originally Posted by C&G in FL

I apologize Woodie. .

No worries ,I saw what you where responding to in your post.I was just sharing what my experience was.In the case of the batteries being inside ,your comment make sense.

[Donna D.]

Originally Posted by woodie

Mine is 6 years old ,how long should such a device last .I would think longer than 6 years,used only on camping trips through each summer.

According to this website, there may be a "replace by" date on the front of the detector: Noisy RV Propane Alarm? See How To Replace LP Gas Leak Detector and Why!

At any rate, the website also says the detectors should be replaced every 5-7 years. I've read that other places as well...

[rbryan4]

Originally Posted by Donna D.

According to this website, there may be a "replace by" date on the front of the detector: Noisy RV Propane Alarm? See How To Replace LP Gas Leak Detector and Why!

At any rate, the website also says the detectors should be replaced every 5-7 years. I've read that other places as well...

That's correct. Manufacturers typically put a "replace by" stamp somewhere on the detector. The layer of metal oxide in the detector eventually loses it's ability to conduct electricity at a constant level of resistance, which will either make the detector sound a "false alarm", or it won't detect a gas leak properly.

For those who want to know how these sensors work, (and also why other flammable gases like the nitrogen from battery gasses can set them off), here's some nerd stuff from a manufacturer website:

At the heart of every propane detector is the sensor which uses the difference between the electrical properties of oxygen and propane to trigger an alarm. The miniature sensor (about the size of the eraser on the end of a pencil) contains 2 main components. One is a layer of metal oxide semiconductor material - usually tin dioxide. The second is a miniature heater, which keeps the semiconductor at a constant high temperature- around 400° C - which it needs to function properly. The metal oxide’s ability to conduct an electrical current (its resistance) is affected by gasses which are attracted to its surface.

Oxygen has the ability to trap electrons, which increases the resistance of the metal oxide. Propane, on the other hand, improves the flow of an electric current through the metal oxide and lowers its resistance. Depending on the concentration or absence of propane in the air around the sensor the current through the metal oxide will increase or decrease – the higher the level of propane, the greater the current.

When propane reaches a dangerous level - usually set at 25% of the lower explosive level, or LEL - the detector begins to sound an alarm. In other words, the alarm starts while you still have a 75% margin of safety. This safety margin decreases as the propane concentration increases.

[rbryan4]

Umm...I meant "hydrogen from battery"...not nitrogen....duh.

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[float5]

What did the dealer tell you that your water column reading was?

Originally Posted by vfarsch

We just bought the Escape 5.0 this December in Texas and brought it home to Ohio (where it experienced its first winter weather). In April, after plugging in the camper, the propane regulator (alarm) starting beeping loudly.

We took it to a dealer to de- winterize it and check for leaks. No leaks.



HELP!!!

[Starbrightsteve]

Someone mentioned that the battery box has only one opening to the exterior. This is truly half assed venting. Very little air will be vented through one opening in a container unless the container is moving such as when the trailer is going down the road. Good venting requires high and low vents for air exchange to occur when the trailer is stationary. My Casita has a screened hole in the the access door to the battery box and a screened hole in the floor of the battery compartment. For those with batteries under the dinette bench, is there a way to add another battery vent? I realize this may require drilling a hole in the side of the trailer. With beeping alarms it doesn't seem like one vent is doing a very good job.

[rbryan4]

Steve, since hydrogen gas is lighter than air (think Hindenburg Zeppelin) it should rise to the top of the battery compartment. If the vent for the battery box were on top, then routed outside, the box should vent fine. You're not trying to circulate air in the box, just vent the gas. I think the problem is inadequate sealing of the box, as well as the vent location.

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[padlin]

There is no room to add a vent out the top of the box, the top of the dinette is only an inch or so above the battery box.