How cold can I go?

[tractors1]

Originally Posted by yardsale

If you are going with heat tape, I wonder if just running it on the bottom of the 3' pipe would be enough heat if you then cover the whole pipe with foam insulation. Much less tape and power than wrapping that length of pipe.

The point is to heat the liquid, so tape on the bottom should be sufficient, but it is easier to secure the tape by wrapping it around the pipe.

[EDarby]

Thanks, Jim. I'm going to be mostly boondocking though so not much access to 120V. And thanks for the source for heat tape!

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

I'd suggest getting an extra 120v outlet on the street side, amidships for a plug in heater/tape you can wrap. The foam option will cover everything but the last 12-18", if you feel you have to, you can plug in a hair dryer or a piece of heat tape and lay on that section of pipe. The heated water hose is found on agriculture/farm supplies as well as Amazon.

[EDarby]

That is super-comforting to hear, yardsale. Thank you!!!

Your work around sounds really interesting. Do you have the high lift axle? If so, would that help with ground clearance? Really look forward to hearing how this works out -- may have to take a trip to visit your master mechanic!

Originally Posted by yardsale

ED, we were boondocking. Sole heat was from propane furnace.

Here is the workaround I am considering for next year.


I have hatched the following project with a master RV mechanic here in VT for next January when he is not busy. As has been discussed before, the weak link in the water management is the discharge valves that are outside of the heated space. Our idea is to encase the entire external plumbing in an insulated fiberglass cover custom designed such that it seals against the bottom of the trailer. It would be on hinges so when you want to dump, you would unlatch the case and let it rotate downward, eventually resting on the ground and exposing the discharge plumbing. The space would be heated by punching two holes in the trailer floor asjacent to the heater which in the 17b is right in the right place close to the discharge valve and 3' pipe leading from the black tank to the gate valve. The mechanic will install a small 12v fan in one hole to circulate warm air into this space. This strategy will extend the heated space over the ENTIRE water system. I anticipate that it will be effective as low as 0F (-18C). One concern is that I lose ground clearance.

[yardsale]

Hey Ed,
We don't have the high lift axle and we will lose perhaps an inch or so--possible probem with the design. See my post today on black water tank capacity. I haven't been putting enough pink stuff to fill that probematic pipe although 4 gallons each time you dump will be expensive.

[EDarby]

Hi Alan,
I referenced your post to ETI and asked if I could still have the heat tape installed. This was the response from Crystal:
"The water lines in your trailer are all inside; Alan has an Escape 21’ which does have some exposed lines at the rear of the trailer."
Since this is all new to me, not sure if this means an absolute "no."

Originally Posted by alanmalk

No to both questions.

I had to order the 12 v. heat tape online and ship it to ETI (and the recommended termination fitting).
Freezstop Low-Voltage Heating Cable available at OEMHeaters.com

The ETI charge was $125 Canadian. It included the switch.

If I could do it over I would add a second heat tape to the black tank drain pipe.

--
Alan

[EDarby]

Hey Canadark, congratulations on your upcoming 17B. I have also been considering trying some amazon workamping--not sure about the 50# lifting requirement though. Back in the day . . .

Originally Posted by Canadark

Same here...I am still working on my build sheet for a June 2016 completion 17B. I now plan to include additional 12-volt heat tape for the unprotected discharge pipes.

[EDarby]

"hard-sided tent" but with an indoor toilet!

Originally Posted by Donna D.

Okay now, I've been a member of the all-molded-towable forums for years. Does it make me an expert? FAR from it! But after all these years and all the posts I've read, it still counts with PAY ATTENTION. We could be talking about towing weights or temperature.

I still think, if the temperature dips low enough for a long enough time... consider your "all-molded-towable," is really nothing than a hard-sided tent (BUT, you sleep warmer).

I can't help other than that....

[EDarby]

Oh, so much to learn, so far to go. Thanks yardsale!

Originally Posted by yardsale

Hey Ed,
We don't have the high lift axle and we will lose perhaps an inch or so--possible probem with the design. See my post today on black water tank capacity. I haven't been putting enough pink stuff to fill that probematic pipe although 4 gallons each time you dump will be expensive.

[cpaharley2008]

Ellen,
I'm not sure you understand completely what is being said. You express interest in cold weather camping and heat pads. You then say you will not be using hookups. You must have hookups to use any of the heat pads and or tape on your plumbing. In addition, camping in below freezing weather without electric limits you to only using your propane furnace, nothing else. So depending on preference will determine what is correct for you. I'm not that familiar with the 17' Escape but if all your water lines are inside then you must have heat to keep them from freezing.

[EDarby]

You're right, but now I think I "get it!!!!!!" A tad slow on the uptake with these things. Thank you very, very much for all your help!!!

Originally Posted by cpaharley2008

Ellen,
I'm not sure you understand completely what is being said. You express interest in cold weather camping and heat pads. You then say you will not be using hookups. You must have hookups to use any of the heat pads and or tape on your plumbing. In addition, camping in below freezing weather without electric limits you to only using your propane furnace, nothing else. So depending on preference will determine what is correct for you. I'm not that familiar with the 17' Escape but if all your water lines are inside then you must have heat to keep them from freezing.

[yardsale]

Oops, I mean Ellen.
Assumptions, assumptions.

[EDarby]

Nooooooo problem!!! It's all good!

Originally Posted by yardsale

Oops, I mean Ellen.
Assumptions, assumptions.

[BillM]

Originally Posted by EDarby

Hi Alan,
I referenced your post to ETI and asked if I could still have the heat tape installed. This was the response from Crystal:
"The water lines in your trailer are all inside; Alan has an Escape 21’ which does have some exposed lines at the rear of the trailer."
Since this is all new to me, not sure if this means an absolute "no."

I got a very similar response from Tammy. Yet it is clearly stated in this thread that there is a 3 foot long unprotected drain pipe from the black water tank of a 17B. Has the design changed?

[yardsale]

Originally Posted by BillM

I got a very similar response from Tammy. Yet it is clearly stated in this thread that there is a 3 foot long unprotected drain pipe from the black water tank of a 17B. Has the design changed?

I doubt it. You might consider approaching Escape and asking if they would install a second gate valve on the end of the problematic pipe closest to the tank. If installed, you could travel with that pipe empty and not suseptible to freezing. When dumping you would open the regular gate valve, then open the new valve and everything would flow normally even in low temps.

[Mary F]

Originally Posted by EDarby

"hard-sided tent" but with an indoor toilet!

I think what Donna was trying to say is don't use the toilet in sub-freezing weather.

At least, I know some people manage winter camping by "winterizing" the plumbing and then not using it.

YMMV

[BillM]

There seems to have been a misunderstanding in respect to where I/we wanted the heating tape. That has been clarified and Tammy has confirmed that ETI will install heating tape on the Black Water Discharge line of a 17B if I supply the tape. There will be a small fee.

[BillM]

I have exchanged email with Brent from Heatline I asked for something to protect the black water discharge line down to about -6C (+20F) using battery power with solar.

He recommended a 12v 5' Kompensator cable with lots of insulation. It comes pre-assembled and produces more wattage as temperature drops. At 20F it appears to produce <>3.5 watts/foot . They want $205 CDN for it.

[EDarby]

Thanks for all the research you did, Bill!