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Old 02-18-2015, 05:33 PM   #21
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Leaks!
I'm a long term boat builder and owner who also lives in a very rainy area of Southeast Alaska. I have learned a few things about caulking and keeping the rain on the outside.


I don't think the manufacture of the caulk is all that important .... its how its applied that matters more. Here is an example: put your thumb finger tip touching your pointer finger tip. Lighty touch the two surfaces and look at them. The space between represents your caulking material (thin as a piece of paper ... or less). Think of your thumb as the shell of your trailer and your pointer finger the case of a running light. They are most likely made of two different substances and will have two different rates of thermo expansion and contraction. If the caulk is as thin as a piece of paper, it won't have much of a chance to stay adhered to both the fixture and the shell of your trailer before a leak starts .... add freeze / thaw to jack the two apart and you have your leak.


To do it right go back to your thumb and figure again and hold them apart about 1/8" or maybe a bit less. The space represents the caulk and now imagine the same expansion and contraction. If the caulk is thick enough then it can stick to both surfaces and move with them. You have just made a gasket that will follow the contours of both surfaces.


1) hold up fixture in place on shell and pencil mark around it - maybe mark fastener hole locations
2) blue tape to the outside of line about 1/8" or less
3) blue tape up the outside of fixture about same distance
4) apply caulk to fixture and fasten very lightly. Caulk should ooze out
5) Clean up overage with a gloved finger tip and remove tape
6) VERY IMPORTANT - allow caulk to set for a few days to a week before fasteners are tightened. When you do .... tightening should cause the caulk to bulge slightly. Don't tighten fastenings too hard


I have used most name brand caulks and like most of them. Look for one that will still be soft and flexible after curing. In general silicone caulks aren't designed to stick to anything .... they are for sealing something up that may need to be taken apart again sometime in the future. If you have made a "gasket" as described above they will work just fine provided there are sufficient fasteners to exert a uniform pressure of the frame. Often light fixtures just have two screws near each end - in that case I'd go for a caulk with better adhesive qualities.


There is one caulk that I would never ever use ... 3M 5200. Its adhesive qualities are strong enough to pull off the gel coat and a couple laminations of fiberglass when removing the item
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Old 02-18-2015, 05:43 PM   #22
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Excellent post, good info.
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Old 02-18-2015, 06:08 PM   #23
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If I recall correctly those lights are sealed units and the only point of intrusion is where the wires and screws enter the trailer. As long as those 3 points are sealed properly, the caulk is redundant in stopping leaks?
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Old 02-18-2015, 07:08 PM   #24
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Know not to use silicone . ...
GOOD FOR YOU!

This issue with the running lights isn't just with ETI, my Scamp had problems too... maintenance issue IMHO.
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Old 02-18-2015, 07:10 PM   #25
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If I recall correctly those lights are sealed units and the only point of intrusion is where the wires and screws enter the trailer. As long as those 3 points are sealed properly, the caulk is redundant in stopping leaks?
I was thinking the same Jim. The hole for the wires should be just big enough and with a dab of sealant. Are the screws just a sheet metal type driven into the fiberglass?
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Old 04-02-2015, 05:34 PM   #26
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If I recall correctly those lights are sealed units and the only point of intrusion is where the wires and screws enter the trailer. As long as those 3 points are sealed properly, the caulk is redundant in stopping leaks?
UPDATE: As you point out IF the three points are sealed it might be redundant, but I had the two screws actually loose in their holes. They are just screwed into the fiberglass with some caulk around them. There is also no way to see IF the wiring hole is filled appropriately (mine was not filled completely, so the outside caulk was essential.) Also, with the gap the lights collect a tremendous amount of gunk, e.g. fir needles, dirt, etc. which then sits in their and oozes or holds moisture against the screw and wiring openings.

SO… I found out by removing my original light the above mentioned issues and installed a new flat light that Reace sent. We just returned from a three week trip to Death Valley, Anza-Borrego, and San Diego, where it was at 98 degrees. To my surprise, the new light did exactly as the old did, warped in the middle leaving about a 1/4 inch gap. I cleaned out the space again and filled again with RV Proflex Clear by Geocel. The nice thing about this caulk is that it wants to adhere to itself so old caulk can be cleaned and new applied over it. I did not remove the light again as I knew what had been sealed behind the light this time.

The purpose of this post was to give an update and suggest monitoring of the long lights if you had them mounted high on the trailer for gaps that might occur.
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Old 04-02-2015, 06:17 PM   #27
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Tim,
Is this running light on all trailers or was it an additional set that you had installed by escape?
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Old 04-02-2015, 06:28 PM   #28
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Hi Tim you should let Reace know what has happened. He might be able to change the method of mounting the lights so as to fix this problem.

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Old 04-02-2015, 06:33 PM   #29
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I wonder why the plastic light expands in the heat and not the fiberglass underneath? Maybe Brian will expand on this.
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Old 04-02-2015, 06:53 PM   #30
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Jim, the fiberglass has significant stiffness compared to the strip light in addition to a much lower coefficient of expansion. The light bows because it is restrained at the ends by the screws and has nowhere to move except away from the fiberglass surface.
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Old 04-02-2015, 07:30 PM   #31
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So we we would need to have a slotted hole and screw with a washer to allow the expansion?
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Old 04-02-2015, 07:46 PM   #32
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Jim, the fiberglass has significant stiffness compared to the strip light in addition to a much lower coefficient of expansion. The light bows because it is restrained at the ends by the screws and has nowhere to move except away from the fiberglass surface.
I think you are on the right track. I am wondering if slotting one screw hole and leaving that end slightly loose would help? Kind of like hanging vinyl siding? Sealant can give. Fiberglass is very stable compared to plastic with no reinforcing filler.
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Old 04-02-2015, 07:56 PM   #33
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Tim,
Is this running light on all trailers or was it an additional set that you had installed by escape?
These are the long standard tail lights that we also chose to have mounted high as well. These lights are long and only have two mounting points. As noted in a previous post, the lower, standard tail lights have not been affected. I suspect that the upper ones are exposed to more heat and movement and are subject to the warping because of their length.
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Old 04-02-2015, 08:04 PM   #34
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Are not the lower and the higher lights the same?
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Old 04-02-2015, 09:22 PM   #35
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Are not the lower and the higher lights the same?
Yes, but my theory is they are in a protected location and not sitting out in the sun going down the road.
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Old 04-03-2015, 12:42 PM   #36
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So many variables. The integrity begins with good installation techniques. Structural backing for the lights should be glassed in so the mounting screws have some structure to bite into. Self taping screws without backing are easy to over tighten and loose the clamping effect.
I doubt that much heat is generated by the LED lights to cause expansion and warping.
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Old 04-03-2015, 12:44 PM   #37
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I wonder why the plastic light expands in the heat and not the fiberglass underneath? Maybe Brian will expand on this.
It may take some time to search the internet for an answer.
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Old 04-03-2015, 01:03 PM   #38
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I think you are on the right track. I am wondering if slotting one screw hole and leaving that end slightly loose would help? Kind of like hanging vinyl siding? Sealant can give. Fiberglass is very stable compared to plastic with no reinforcing filler.
Yes, slotting one end of the light and not tightening that end would be effective if used together with an elastomeric sealant allowing movement while stopping water ingress. Likely the most effective fix.... As Bob mentioned there are issues with stripping of the screws in just the fiberglass shell, however just providing a more stable attachment point for the screws will not stop the light bowing as the root cause is the restraint of the lights at each end combined with the thermal expansion of the light.
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Old 04-03-2015, 07:56 PM   #39
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These are the long standard tail lights that we also chose to have mounted high as well. These lights are long and only have two mounting points. As noted in a previous post, the lower, standard tail lights have not been affected. I suspect that the upper ones are exposed to more heat and movement and are subject to the warping because of their length.

Thanks techfan!

I wonder if I could request escape not to install these on my trailer? The last thing I have time for is to try to repair something like this. I have food plots to attend too!
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Old 04-03-2015, 08:04 PM   #40
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Thanks techfan!

I wonder if I could request escape not to install these on my trailer? The last thing I have time for is to try to repair something like this. I have food plots to attend too!
I would give Reace a call as he is very accommodating on most things and I'm sure he still has the round small ones.

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