Lug nuts

[gbaglo]

Over my first cup of coffee this morning, it occurred to me that I didn't know if the wrench that comes with the RAV would also work on the lug nuts on the trailer. I went out and bought a decent wrench ( not sure what the correct term is but it's shaped like a cross with four different size sockets ). Of course, now I have to take it back and get the right one. The 13 / 16 socket seems the closest and would work, but I suspect what I need is a 3 / 4" ( which isn't one of the choices ).

I also learned that you need a really short flat-head screwdriver to pry off the hub cap, or some other device designed for the job.

And, when it stops raining, I'm going to have to see if my hydraulic jack is tall enough for the job, without stacking too many chunks of 2 x 6. Question is, where should the jack be positioned?

Hope I never have to change a tire, but if I do, I want to make sure I have the right tools for the job.

baglo

[PGDriver]

Glenn I'm sure that roadside assistance comes with the trailer, just call Tammy

[gbaglo]

It's not just idle curiosity. Every trip I've ever taken into the Skagit Valley has resulted in a flat on the tow vehicle, tow or both. I think the local tire store in Hope "seeds" the road. Given that it's a 45 minute drive out, I come prepared. Still, there is nothing you can do about the anxiety of driving back to Hope, knowing that you now have no spare.

baglo

[PGDriver]

OH so you are saying you were beyond hope.

[PGDriver]

Seriously I will have to look into the requirements of my 19, I have lots of hydraulic jacks
will just have to fined one that fits under the trailer.
Maybe Reace or Tammy will post the size of the lug nuts for
us so we carry the right size wrench.

[gbaglo]

As the Hope Chamber of Commerce says, "Live in Hope, die in despair".

baglo

[gbaglo]

I pulled the hubcap again, using a screw-driver 3" long. I think there is a better tool for the job. Something with a keen point and a hook shape at the end. Might make one out of an old screwdriver.

Anyway, I couldn't fit a 3/4" socket over the nut, so 13/16" it is.

baglo

[escape artist]

Hi: gBaglo... This question could ultimately drive you "nuts". Most single size Lug Wrenches have a flatened screwdriver type end with a slight curve to flip off the caps/covers. These wrenches are also used to crank up the Bottle type jacks. They are avail. at Princess Auto etc.
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

[gbaglo]

I like the leverage I get with the "spinner" type ( the cross ), although you can carry a length of pipe to slip over the wrench you describe to obtain more leverage. I find it's less likely to slip off too.

And I now have a bent screwdriver, previously used to open paint cans.

baglo

[gbaglo]

Originally Posted by escape artist

Hi: gBaglo... This question could ultimately drive you "nuts". Most single size Lug Wrenches have a flatened screwdriver type end with a slight curve to flip off the caps/covers. These wrenches are also used to crank up the Bottle type jacks. They are avail. at Princess Auto etc.
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

If you have one you might want to try it and see if it works. With a straight screwdriver I got nowhere. The edge of the hub is recessed in the wheel and the handle of my screwdriver would come up against the tire, preventing me from prying at all. Better to know now if it works or not than at the side of some dark, remote highway.

baglo

[Jim Bennett]

Originally Posted by gbaglo

I like the leverage I get with the "spinner" type ( the cross ), although you can carry a length of pipe to slip over the wrench you describe to obtain more leverage. I find it's less likely to slip off too.

And I now have a bent screwdriver, previously used to open paint cans.

baglo

People do have to take care not to overtighten the lug nuts though. A torque wrench is recommended, though most people don't own one, let alone bring one with them. Usually a final torque of about90-110 is used on most trailer type tires, but I am not sure what is recommended for the Escapes. They should be tightened in a proper order too, dependent upon how many lug nuts there is.
Both overtightening and undertightening too much are not good.

[escape artist]

Hi: All... I checked the pickup and it contains a bottle jack& single size lug wrench. With any luck at all the wrench might just fit both truck and trailer. I will certainly check all before tugging off on our next adventure.
I had the valve stems replaced on the trailer as they were severely cracked and part of a very bad lot of off shore rubber stems. I also just replaced the tires on the truck with Toyo light truck P235/75R16 HT tires loaded with nitrogen. This may improve the MPG as it seems to help the rolling resistance!!!
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie

[gbaglo]

People do have to take care not to overtighten the lug nuts though. A torque wrench is recommended, though most people don't own one, let alone bring one with them. Usually a final torque of about90-110 is used on most trailer type tires, but I am not sure what is recommended for the Escapes. They should be tightened in a proper order too, dependent upon how many lug nuts there is.
Both overtightening and undertightening too much are not good.
[/quote]

I did own a torque wrench once. I'll have to look in the bottom of the tool box. Don't think I ever had confidence that I was reading it right. It was just a steel rod with a scale attached ( nothing digital back then ).

And, while we're on the topic, you need to re-torque after about a week, especially with aluminum wheels. This applies to wheels installed at your dealer or tire shop too.

baglo

[gbaglo]

Jim,

I haven't looked for the torque wrench since it occurred to me that I would have to use it with a swivel adapter to clear the tire and that that might throw off the reading I get. Any thoughts?

baglo

[Jim Bennett]

Glenn, if there is any losses to the torque due to the swivel adapter, it might effect the reading some, but I am not real sure myself. I usually have used a straight extension in that situation though.

[ronstew]

Why do you need to use a swivel adapter? A straight extender is the way to go if you are measuring torque. Otherwise you are changing the length of the lever arm unpredictably, and your torque wrench readings lose a lot of their meaning.

If you need to operate this way, post a picture of the set-up, and I might be able to help you with a conversion factor. Right now, even though I teach physics in high school, and even though torque and equilibrium form part of the curriculum, I am stumped by this. I have, however, brought the problem to the attention of several learned friends who might reply later today. It is a good physics problem.

Here is the question that I posed to the BC Association of Physics Teachers:

A friend posed this problem and it has me stumped. For some reason that is not clear to me, he has to use a swivel adapter between his trailer's lug nuts and his torque wrench, effectively increasing the length of the lever arm in a way that makes the torque reading on the wrench incorrect. (Adding length to the handle would be no problem, of course, but that is not where he adds the length.)

At first I thought that
real torque = torque reading * (original handle length + extension length) / original handle length
and
desired torque reading = desired torque * original length / (original handle length + extension length)

But I realised that the reading is actually independent of the handle length. So I tried it with two cases, but the results don't equate.

Case 1:
Assume that the handle is 10" long (L1), and that the extension adds 2" (L2). Apply 2 pounds of force (F ). Things are appropriately parallel and perpendicular to maximise the effects and minimise the math. The wrench reads 20 inch-pounds (F*L1), and you are applying 24 inch-pounds to the nut. (F*(L1+L2))

Case 2:
This time, apply 4 pounds of force half-way along the same wrench handle (L1 = 5"). Again, the indicator will read 20 inch-pounds, but the torque you are applying to the nut is 28 inch-pounds.

I cannot imagine that in equilibrium the two scenarios would result in different torques on the nut, since the torque at the head of the wrench is the same, and the distance from the wrench-head to the nut-axis is the same.

What is my error?

Ron Stewart
Pattison High School
Vancouver

[Jim Bennett]

The torque wrench (working properly) will read the actual torque at the wrench head with an extension on the handle. You could put on 2' of handle extension, and although the force required to attain the required torque is less, the actual torque read is correct.

If using an extension on the socket, and the head of the wrench is head from twisting (usually holding it with your other hand), the torque reading will be accurate as well, as the torque read is applied to the extension the same as the nut.

Using a swivel adapter on the socket would have a definite effect on the actual torque applied, and the reading on the wrench. I don't know how one would calculate this (if you even wanted to) because it would likely change with the angle, and be affected by losses in the swivel joints.

I have used torque wrenches on probably 100,000 nuts in my life (no, not beating stupid people). I used to be able to get extremely close with a regular wrench, and only used the torque for a final check. I haven't done this for over 15 years now though.

[ronstew]

Actually, there are no losses in the swivel joints in a static system. If there is no motion, they might as well be welded. Angles certainly are an issue, though.

[gbaglo]

Don't know why I suggested the swivel head as a solution, since I have extensions as well as the swivel. I have found that using the extension makes it easier to slip off the nut. Anyway, I still haven't found the wrench so it's all moot.

Tammy informs me that socket required is 13 /16 " and you can jack anywhere on the frame. In the shop she says they usually jack just forward of the wheel.

baglo

[Hokie Escape]

That is all great info. This week, I'm gonna get my "road equipment" ready. We didn't have any trouble on our trip home, but I did have a blow out on my Casita llast year, and it's no fun if you're not ready! Glad you brought this up Glen.