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12-11-2015, 09:13 AM
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#61
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 2013 19' & 2013 15B
Posts: 2,634
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna D.
Legally, the trailer doesn't belong to you until it's 100% paid for and you have the title in hand. Might be one of those things it's worth not paying the last $100 or so. That's easily handled with cash at time of pickup...
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I understand the point you are making Donna, but I don't agree with you. Anyone who takes out a loan for a car or house or a trailer retains ownership of that property, even though they may owe money to a bank or some other entity. The bank or other entity does not retain ownership of the property, although they have some rights with respect to that property. However, a clear title to that property could not be obtained until the money owing on that property is fully paid off.
__________________
2013 19' \ 2013 15B, 2020 Toyota 4Runner TRD Offroad
"It is better to remain silent at the risk of being thought a fool, than to talk and remove all doubt of it." - 1907, Maurice Switzer
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12-11-2015, 11:03 AM
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#62
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Denison, Texas
Trailer: 2015 21'; 2011 19' sold; 4Runner; ph ninezero3 327-27ninefour
Posts: 5,136
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It appears, if this forum is any indication, that most people get their tag, registration and title from their states before they pick up the trailer, and in many cases they have not completely paid yet. In other words, they have documents that make it appear that they own the trailer. Those documents may be dated, however, from the date of pick-up. Our insurance began on the date of pick-up. (Did not store at Escape.)
I believe that Escape is saying that you own the trailer upon the completion date (not really the date that you pay in full as someone there may have said). On that completion date, which is what should be in your paperwork, you become the owner, it seems. Whether you have obtained tag and title yet may be irrelevant, but the various authorities would all probably argue about that. It is a matter of completing the paperwork just as when you buy a car here from a dealer and they then may send In the paperwork to the state to finish it all.
It is possible that a Canadian company would insure it for storage. Unless one had to go through ICBC, I would not, just because of the high expense that I was told for their insurance, but that may have been for travel, not storage. But one may be required to go through them.
I am guessing that Americans have obtained insurance that appears to cover the storage in Canada because they gave their completion date to their insurance company and the company rep did not know or care that the trailer was being stored in Canada. The owners simply bought the insurance as if they were picking up, but were not. What problems there would be if a claim, no telling.
When some of these companies have said that they do not insure for storage in Canada, well, I was told by one that they would not insure a trailer FROM Canada at all. But they do. That agent may have thought that I was Canadian. No telling what they think the situation is with regard to Escape trailers being manufactured in Canada and imported by Americans. They may not have any basis to understand the question being asked when one says he wants insurance while the trailer is stored in Canada.
The biggest problems with the OP question are these: 1. One has to have an agent who knows what he or she is talking about. (I have had wrong information given to me many times.)
2. The agent has to know what you are talking about. They have to understand the whole situation with regard to American buyers of the trailer from Canada.
Apparently a Canadian company is needed. I would look for a company rather than using ICBC unless it is required to go through them.
__________________
Cathy. Floating Cloud
"Live in the sunshine, swim the sea, drink the wild air.... "
Emerson
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12-11-2015, 01:54 PM
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#63
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: In a house, New Jersey
Trailer: Used to own a 17B and a 19 Escape
Posts: 136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Floating Cloud
The biggest problems with the OP question are these: 1. One has to have an agent who knows what he or she is talking about. (I have had wrong information given to me many times.)
2. The agent has to know what you are talking about. They have to understand the whole situation with regard to American buyers of the trailer from Canada.
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I spoke to my auto and home insurance company three times and each time I got a different representative and the same answer. Two representatives even spoke to the underwriters to make sure that they could not insure it.
This discussion has been very helpful and I see some good ideas to pursue. I am not going to do anything at this point until I can speak to Tammy and get better information.
This conversation also highlights that there is a lot of uncertainty surrounding this topic.
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12-11-2015, 02:26 PM
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#64
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: North Van., British Columbia
Trailer: 2014 Escape 19, sold; 2019 Escape 21, Sept. 2019
Posts: 8,743
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ichrisdr
This conversation also highlights that there is a lot of uncertainty surrounding this topic.
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Yes, I'm quite surprised after 63 posts there's no definitive answer.
As much as I'm not a fan of "no choice insurer" for basic liability ICBC does have a pretty good track record with me for some not straightforward stuff. I would get a definitive answer from ICBC.
Generally speaking, most storage places in this part of the world seem to disclaim any responsibility for your goods while in storage. It's not unique to ETI.
Ron
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12-11-2015, 02:31 PM
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#65
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Allendale, New Jersey
Trailer: 19' towed by a 4Runner
Posts: 251
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You can pull this off, just not as a NJ resident.
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12-11-2015, 02:35 PM
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#66
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia
Trailer: 2009 Escape 17B 2020 Toyota Highlander XLE
Posts: 17,136
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I think we are spinning our wheels until OP hears from Tammy.
__________________
What happens to the hole when the cheese is gone?
- Bertolt Brecht
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12-11-2015, 04:57 PM
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#67
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Denison, Texas
Trailer: 2015 21'; 2011 19' sold; 4Runner; ph ninezero3 327-27ninefour
Posts: 5,136
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Tammy does not have knowledge of what U.S. insurers do nor what individual states require, which is why ETI said to ask here. There is a clear answer that the U.S. companies will not insure storage there, so it seems that a Canadian company would be needed.
I would call some Canadian companies. May not be a problem. If they will not do it or it is very expensive, there is the alternative of flying in, having ETI deliver it to the border and then getting storage there in the U.S. and going back later.
__________________
Cathy. Floating Cloud
"Live in the sunshine, swim the sea, drink the wild air.... "
Emerson
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12-11-2015, 05:00 PM
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#68
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia
Trailer: 2009 Escape 17B 2020 Toyota Highlander XLE
Posts: 17,136
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Tammy will know if it would be covered by their insurance from the time it is completed until it is imported to the U.S.
__________________
What happens to the hole when the cheese is gone?
- Bertolt Brecht
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12-11-2015, 05:03 PM
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#69
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Denison, Texas
Trailer: 2015 21'; 2011 19' sold; 4Runner; ph ninezero3 327-27ninefour
Posts: 5,136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbaglo
Tammy will know if it would be covered by their insurance from the time it is completed until it is imported to the U.S.
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She apparently has already said it is not, right?
I believe ETI is saying that you own it upon completion. (It also must be paid for upon completion.)
Storage facilities do not cover your trailer. You have to have your own insurance.
__________________
Cathy. Floating Cloud
"Live in the sunshine, swim the sea, drink the wild air.... "
Emerson
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12-11-2015, 05:40 PM
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#70
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia
Trailer: 2009 Escape 17B 2020 Toyota Highlander XLE
Posts: 17,136
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OP reported "ETI said to ask here". That could be new front end staff. I don't recall him saying he had spoken to Tammy, which he is doing on Monday.
__________________
What happens to the hole when the cheese is gone?
- Bertolt Brecht
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12-11-2015, 08:10 PM
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#71
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central, Pennsylvania
Trailer: Escape#5 2022 E19
Posts: 26,268
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Perhaps Escape can refer the op to a Canadian company familiar with insurance for storage on a manufacturer's property, not in a storage facility, with a Certificate of Origin still in the manufacturer's name, perhaps a rider on their policy if a storage fee was charged.
__________________
Jim
Sometime life gets in the way of living.......
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12-11-2015, 08:19 PM
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#72
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Tracy, California
Trailer: Escape 19 2015
Posts: 342
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This is a great thread. We want to travel to Alaska. How have others dealt with this issue when traveling through Canada? I didn't even think to ask our insurance company....now I'm concerned.
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12-11-2015, 08:23 PM
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#73
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: North Vancouver, British Columbia
Trailer: 2009 Escape 17B 2020 Toyota Highlander XLE
Posts: 17,136
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The issue isn't traveling through Canada; it is storage in Canada.
__________________
What happens to the hole when the cheese is gone?
- Bertolt Brecht
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12-11-2015, 08:45 PM
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#74
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Denison, Texas
Trailer: 2015 21'; 2011 19' sold; 4Runner; ph ninezero3 327-27ninefour
Posts: 5,136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P&L
This is a great thread. We want to travel to Alaska. How have others dealt with this issue when traveling through Canada? I didn't even think to ask our insurance company....now I'm concerned.
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You might look at your insurance policy and see if it mentions Canada. We were told that we are covered in Canada.
__________________
Cathy. Floating Cloud
"Live in the sunshine, swim the sea, drink the wild air.... "
Emerson
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12-11-2015, 09:57 PM
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#75
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Site Team
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Portland, Oregon
Trailer: 2014 Escape 5.0 TA
Posts: 11,023
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ice-breaker
I understand the point you are making Donna, but I don't agree with you. Anyone who takes out a loan for a car or house or a trailer retains ownership of that property, even though they may owe money to a bank or some other entity.
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Things change at the speed of light. And I can't speak to anything beyond my buy from ETI in 2014. But, I threw money at ETI over several months, no loan.. always a check from my bank account. The only thing I got back was as a receipt that was a modified "Build Sheet." No VIN number or anything that recognized I was buying an asset. Maybe I was an "innocent" but it all worked out for me. AND my trailer had a zero loan against it and 100% paid for when I picked it up at the US/Canada border at Sumas. Maybe that's the difference between me and a few others? I never considered the insurance problem because I picked up on the completion date. So, if that confuses folks.. I apologize.
__________________
Donna D.
Ten Forward
2014 Escape 5.0TA
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12-11-2015, 10:32 PM
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#76
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: SLO County, California
Trailer: 2014 Escape 21C 2019 Expedition
Posts: 5,210
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I was there too on the date; said I could come earlier as I was in town, but Tammy said she'd see me at 11 AM. Even then had to wait awhile as they were still putting on the final touches. Feel for those who have to wait months for a finished Escape.
This insurance question is intriguing; wonder if my umbrella policy would cover any loss if we were in this position of having paid for it but leaving it at ETI for several months. Isn't this in fact a bailment?
BAILMENT(from lectlaw.com)
A legal relationship created when a person gives property to someone else for safekeeping. To create a bailment the other party must knowingly have exclusive control over the property. The receiver must use reasonable care to protect the property.
This word is derived from the French, bailler, to deliver. It is a compendious expression, to signify a contract resulting from delivery. It has been defined to be a delivery of goods on a condition, express or implied, that they shall be restored by the bailee to the bailor, or according to his directions, as soon as the purposes for which they are bailed shall be answered. Or it is a delivery of goods in trust, on a contract either expressed or implied, that the trust shall be duly executed, and the goods redelivered, as soon as the time or use for which they were bailed shall have elapsed or be performed.
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12-11-2015, 11:50 PM
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#77
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
Trailer: 2014 Escape 21 -- The Skylark. Towed by a 2014 Highlander
Posts: 1,159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossue
This insurance question is intriguing; wonder if my umbrella policy would cover any loss if we were in this position of having paid for it but leaving it at ETI for several months. Isn't this in fact a bailment?
BAILMENT(from lectlaw.com)
A legal relationship created when a person gives property to someone else for safekeeping. To create a bailment the other party must knowingly have exclusive control over the property. The receiver must use reasonable care to protect the property.
This word is derived from the French, bailler, to deliver. It is a compendious expression, to signify a contract resulting from delivery. It has been defined to be a delivery of goods on a condition, express or implied, that they shall be restored by the bailee to the bailor, or according to his directions, as soon as the purposes for which they are bailed shall be answered. Or it is a delivery of goods in trust, on a contract either expressed or implied, that the trust shall be duly executed, and the goods redelivered, as soon as the time or use for which they were bailed shall have elapsed or be performed.
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There is no need to wonder if your policy covers you. Reading the policy will generally answer the question. All of the umbrella policies I have seen are liability policies, with no coverage for your property, only damage caused by your negligence to the property of others.
As I have said before, in the event of a loss, it will be your policy that determines if you have coverage. So it is good to read your policy before you have the loss. It doesn't make any difference what the person on the phone said about whether or not there is coverage unless you have it in writing. Getting an answer off an Internet forum is also not very useful since policies can differ from state to state and person to person.
Also I suspect the op may be asking the insurance company the wrong question. There is a lot of difference between asking an underwriter 'Will you write coverage on a trailer stored in Canada?' And 'Is our insured's trailer covered while it is stored n Canada?'
__________________
Camping: Where you spend a small fortune to live like a homeless person.
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12-12-2015, 07:50 AM
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#78
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central, Pennsylvania
Trailer: Escape#5 2022 E19
Posts: 26,268
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Also I suspect the op may be asking the insurance company the wrong question. There is a lot of difference between asking an underwriter 'Will you write coverage on a trailer stored in Canada?' And 'Is our insured's trailer covered while it is stored n Canada?'
__________________
Bingo,
That may well be the issue, asking the right question the right way to the right person. Sometimes your research will get completely irrelevant results by not researching using the correct key words and going the correct source.
__________________
Jim
Sometime life gets in the way of living.......
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12-12-2015, 08:51 AM
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#79
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: SLO County, California
Trailer: 2014 Escape 21C 2019 Expedition
Posts: 5,210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeonW
.... All of the umbrella policies I have seen are liability policies, with no coverage for your property, only damage caused by your negligence to the property of others.
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Duh! Well I guess I'd be covered if the trailer were to go freewheeling and hit another trailer
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12-12-2015, 09:05 AM
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#80
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: St. Thomas not BVI., Ontario
Trailer: 2014 Escape 5.0TA / 2016 Ram Eco Diesel 4X4
Posts: 8,035
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[QUOTE=Rossue;120801]
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeonW
.... All of the umbrella policies I have seen are liability policies, with no coverage for your property, only damage caused by your negligence to the property of others.
Duh! Well I guess I'd be covered if the trailer were to go freewheeling and hit another trailer
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Hi: Rossue... I've oft said "Insurance Co's. are liability company's that don't want to take any liability". ie: your only covered if the Golden Gate Bridge falls on your travel trailer on the second Tuesday of any week!!! Alf
escape artist N.S. of Lake Erie
__________________
Quote Bugs Bunny..."Don't take life too seriously, none of us get out of it ALIVE"!!!
'16 Ram Eco D. 4X4 Laramie Longhorn CC & '14 Escape 5.0TA
St.Thomas (Not the Virgin Islands) Ontario
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