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Old 10-06-2019, 03:37 PM   #1
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No 120v in the trailer Any ideas

We have a new 2019 E21 - there's been no problems for 6 months. Today all 120v power in the trailer quit and I can't find the problem.
We have a small 120v space heater that we sometimes use with shore power, it has two settings, 600W and 1500W. I normally set it to 600W if I'm using any other 120v. Today I accidentally left in on 1500W while using hot water. At some point all the 120V in the trailer quit. I assumed a breaker had tripped. I reset all the 120v breakers including the two in the breaker box under the dinette seat. The monitor shows 122v and E0, so the the trailer still has shore power coming in. I reset the breaker on the outside post just to be sure.
Any ideas? Is there a master breaker someplace that may have tripped?
Thanks, Lou
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Old 10-06-2019, 03:41 PM   #2
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Have you checked your GFCI receptacle to see if it’s tripped just a thought
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Old 10-06-2019, 06:12 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Lou & Lorna View Post
We have a new 2019 E21 - there's been no problems for 6 months. Today all 120v power in the trailer quit and I can't find the problem.
We have a small 120v space heater that we sometimes use with shore power, it has two settings, 600W and 1500W. I normally set it to 600W if I'm using any other 120v. Today I accidentally left in on 1500W while using hot water. At some point all the 120V in the trailer quit. I assumed a breaker had tripped. I reset all the 120v breakers including the two in the breaker box under the dinette seat. The monitor shows 122v and E0, so the the trailer still has shore power coming in. I reset the breaker on the outside post just to be sure.
Any ideas? Is there a master breaker someplace that may have tripped?
Thanks, Lou
Does your EMS show a "PE" code? Did you manually flip all the breakers fully off and then fully on to make sure they were all reset? And lastly, do you own a multimeter?
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Old 10-06-2019, 09:19 PM   #4
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"Does your EMS show a "PE" code? Did you manually flip all the breakers fully off and then fully on to make sure they were all reset? And lastly, do you own a multimeter?"


The EMS shows no code (E0). I flipped all the breakers off and then on (including the two under the dinettes seat) three times. Yes, I do own a good multimeter.


Thanks, Lou
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Old 10-06-2019, 09:33 PM   #5
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Have you tried putting your EMS in the bypass mode ?
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Old 10-06-2019, 09:34 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Lou & Lorna View Post
"Does your EMS show a "PE" code? Did you manually flip all the breakers fully off and then fully on to make sure they were all reset? And lastly, do you own a multimeter?"





The EMS shows no code (E0). I flipped all the breakers off and then on (including the two under the dinettes seat) three times. Yes, I do own a good multimeter.





Thanks, Lou


Sounds like it’s time to break out the multimeter.
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Old 10-06-2019, 09:36 PM   #7
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The battery has remained at 100% charge for 8 hours with the trailer parked in the shade, running some lights and the propane heater. That leads me to believe that the battery is being charged by shore power.
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Old 10-06-2019, 09:50 PM   #8
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I put the EMS in by-pass mode. No change, still no 120v inside the trailer.
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Old 10-07-2019, 08:22 AM   #9
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If i remember correctly there is a 30 amp, 2 pole relay in the EMS that controls the 120 VAC going to the converter panel . The sensing circuits are on the line side of the relay
So the EMS whether in sensing mode or bypass mode may be seeing proper 120 VAC but if the relay is defective ( Bad coil — Bad contacts ) it will not allow power to pass to the converter panel .
You should be able to pull the cover off the EMS and check for power on both sides of the relay (L1-L2-T1-T2 ) Set the EMS to bypass and the relay should close .
If the relay doesn’t electrically close in bypass it indicates control circuit issues , a bad relay coil or a relay that has malfunctioned mechanically
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Old 10-07-2019, 09:19 AM   #10
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If i remember correctly there is a 30 amp, 2 pole relay in the EMS that controls the 120 VAC going to the converter panel . The sensing circuits are on the line side of the relay
If the battery is 100% and they are running the furnace, the on-board charger must be functioning so it is down stream from the EMS.
If I am correctly understanding 'propane heater' to mean 'furnace'. I certainly would not be able to run my furnace overnight off the solar panel.

What is between the EMS and a wall socket besides the breaker box? On mine a transfer switch.
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Old 10-07-2019, 09:33 AM   #11
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Just looked at an old picture of our 17 and there is a master breaker in the top position and then two breakers below it.
Do you just have two breakers?
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Old 10-07-2019, 10:14 AM   #12
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Is there a master breaker someplace that may have tripped?
The top breaker in the WFCO power centre's distribution panel is physically the same as all of the other breakers in that panel, but it is wired as the master or main (and should be labeled that way); it will have a 30 amp rating.

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Originally Posted by jxoco View Post
Just looked at an old picture of our 17 and there is a master breaker in the top position and then two breakers below it.
Do you just have two breakers?
The distribution panel in the WFCO power centre has a main breaker plus a few more (not just two) branch circuit breakers, depending on equipment. In trailers such as this one with the factory-installed "all outlets" inverter option, one of those breakers feeds a transfer switch, which feeds a second breaker panel (with two breakers covering all visible outlets) hidden in a cabinet.

Lou said that he reset all of the breakers, including the two under the dinette seat, indicating that they reset both the breakers in the WFCO panel and the breakers in the additional panel.
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Old 10-07-2019, 10:27 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Lou & Lorna View Post
The battery has remained at 100% charge for 8 hours with the trailer parked in the shade, running some lights and the propane heater. That leads me to believe that the battery is being charged by shore power.
With the extra breaker panel, you must have the inverter option. With the inverter, you must have the dual 6-volt battery option.

With 225 amp-hours of battery capacity, running the furnace and some lights for a few hours would be no problem for the battery.

What is giving the "100%" reading? The lights on the monitor panel, or perhaps a solar charge controller? It's not clear to me that the converter/charger is actually running.

I think it's time for some systematic testing of just where there is AC power, using a meter or testing probe, starting from the source end if you can get at the connections (or are using a clamp meter around cables), or from the load end if just checking at outlets.
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Old 10-07-2019, 10:53 AM   #14
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I think it's time for some systematic testing of just where there is AC power, using a meter or testing probe, starting from the source end if you can get at the connections (or are using a clamp meter around cables), or from the load end if just checking at outlets.
It would be much easier to solve some of the electrical problems if a meter was in use. Follow the power....

Hopefully more folks will add a mulitmeter to their tool boxes.

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Old 10-07-2019, 11:59 AM   #15
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The problem was indeed a tripped CFGI, as first suggested by "Oldtimer".
Thanks to all who made suggestions, it's much appreciated.
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Old 10-07-2019, 12:05 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Lou & Lorna View Post
The problem was indeed a tripped CFGI, as first suggested by "Oldtimer".
Thanks to all who made suggestions, it's much appreciated.


So the GFCI cut all the 120V power in the trailer, as you indicated initially?
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Old 10-07-2019, 12:29 PM   #17
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As near as I could tell, the tripped GFCI cut all the 120V power in the trailer, but the batteries continued to charge as shown on the solar control panel. (The trailer was parked in the shade.) I didn't make a thorough check to see if there was any 120v power, but here was none to the outlets or microwave.
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Old 10-07-2019, 01:15 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Lou & Lorna View Post
As near as I could tell, the tripped GFCI cut all the 120V power in the trailer, but the batteries continued to charge as shown on the solar control panel. (The trailer was parked in the shade.) I didn't make a thorough check to see if there was any 120v power, but here was none to the outlets or microwave.
More likely (or, more physically possible), the tripped GFCI only cut power to that outlet and outlets downstream of it on the same circuit, but
  • the GFCI outlet is (deliberately) the first one in the chain so that entire circuit was off, and
  • none of the outlets on the other circuit of accessible outlets was checked.
The converter/charger, air conditioner (if equipped), water heater (if equipped with electric option), and refrigerator would have all still worked in this case. It seems like the converter/charger did, and it's understandable that the appliances were not checked for this since the refrigerator and water heater work on propane and 12VDC, whether or not 120 V AC power is available.

Escape used to offer a layout diagram showing the location of outlets, and that's still available:
Internet Archive Wayback Machine - archive from 2019 May 28 of Escape Trailer website
I suggest taking the 21 Standard Locations document and adding the circuit identification to each outlet to make this kind of troubleshooting easier.
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Old 10-07-2019, 01:15 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Lou & Lorna View Post
As near as I could tell, the tripped GFCI cut all the 120V power in the trailer, but the batteries continued to charge as shown on the solar control panel. (The trailer was parked in the shade.) I didn't make a thorough check to see if there was any 120v power, but here was none to the outlets or microwave.


Ah, that makes sense. When you indicated that all 120V power in the trailer was out I mentally ruled out GFCI, as that should only affect the one circuit that it’s on.

Congratulations on getting initiated on troubleshooting the GFCI though. The first time that happens it’s a head scratcher for everyone, particularly as that outlet is usually on the outside of the trailer. But you‘ll always remember to check it from now on
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Old 10-07-2019, 02:13 PM   #20
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Thank you Scott and Brian, that's a help!
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