No propane through quick connect - Page 2 - Escape Trailer Owners Community

Go Back   Escape Trailer Owners Community > Escape Tech > Problem Solving | Owners helping each other
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 09-04-2016, 12:39 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
C&G in FL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Tampa Bay Area, Florida
Trailer: 2015 5.0TA
Posts: 1,372
Quote:
Originally Posted by PGDriver View Post
This is odd as we have a a WeberQ1000 that we run off the low pressure quick connect port all the time. Just plug in, flip the valve (done fairly fast) and we're good to go.
Cheers
Doug
Seems strange to me as I do the same as Doug with my Q100 (previous model). Unless the control valve in the grill is open, a "surge" large enough to activate the tank OPD safety features would seem to be next to impossible, as the propane hose is not a void, it is full if air which is pushed toward the grill and out by pressurized propane. If the control valve is in the off position, neither air nor propane is going to flow. And the grill will not ignite until all the air in the hose(s) has been displaced by propane.
__________________

__________________
Carl
2015 F150 2.7 EcoBoost (Big Spot)
2015 5.0TA (Little Elsie)
"What a long, strange trip it's been....."
C&G in FL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2016, 02:22 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: N/A, Indiana
Trailer: Escape
Posts: 908
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbryan4 View Post
That would mean some sort of check valve on the Weber then? (Since the fridge works on propane afterwards it can't be at the tanks).
Open the LP tank valve slowly and the keep the gas grill or appliance valve off when opening the valve on the LP tank.
Slowly. The trick here is to turn the hand wheel slowly. When the propane gas tank is new or newly-filled, the gas is full and the OPD is pushing slightly on the top filled area and the gas will want to burst through the valve. Slow it down by turning the valve on slowly and the check valve will reset itself. However, most gas grill users do not realize a device called a check valve is also installed in propane cylinder tanks as an additional safety measure.
lp tank propane safety features

The check valve is installed to detect hazardous leaks in your propane tank. When the tank hand wheel is turned to open, the liquid propane travels through the check valve and the barbeque grill regulator to fill the hose attaching to the grill manifold. Providing the barbecue grill valves are in the “off” position the propane stops before filling the gas grill burners and the pressure checks back to the valve. If there is a leak in any of the fittings that connect your propane tank to your gas grill, the drop in pressure is noted and the tank goes “into check” which restricts or stops gas flow.
http://www.grill-repair.com/blog/200...ne-safety-opd/
__________________

__________________
"Never argue with an idiot. They only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience." George Carlins
Jubal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2016, 03:26 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 8,444
It looks like this problem had nothing to do with the tank or any valve around it, but just for clarification...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubal View Post
However, most gas grill users do not realize a device called a check valve is also installed in propane cylinder tanks as an additional safety measure.
lp tank propane safety features

The check valve is installed to detect hazardous leaks in your propane tank.
It looks like this is a description of the excess flow valve, which is not a check valve. The excess flow valve is the device which nearly shuts off flow if it surges (flow at a greater rate than the valve's designed shutoff threshold), but it is located in the QCC hand nut at the end of the hose, not in the tank itself (which is why it doesn't appear in the tank drawing). Regardless of the location, the fix is to close the tank valve to completely stop flow and allow the excess flow valve to reset (open).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubal View Post
...Providing the barbecue grill valves are in the “off” position the propane stops before filling the gas grill burners and the pressure checks back to the valve. If there is a leak in any of the fittings that connect your propane tank to your gas grill, the drop in pressure is noted and the tank goes “into check” which restricts or stops gas flow.
A check valve doesn't respond to a drop in pressure, and the excess flow valve responds to flow, not pressure. A major leak - such as hose rupture - allows excessively high flow rate, and that's what the excess flow valve detects and chokes off. The surge of propane into a hoses which started with no pressure - especially with a burner control valve open - is the condition which accidentally trips the excess flow valve sometimes if the propane tank valve is fully opened too quickly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubal View Post
When the tank hand wheel is turned to open, the liquid propane travels through the check valve...
The propane in the tank is mostly liquid, but propane vapour (not liquid) should ever leave the tank.
Brian B-P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2016, 03:29 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 8,444
Quote:
Originally Posted by C&G in FL View Post
Seems strange to me as I do the same as Doug with my Q100 (previous model). Unless the control valve in the grill is open, a "surge" large enough to activate the tank OPD safety features would seem to be next to impossible, as the propane hose is not a void, it is full if air which is pushed toward the grill and out by pressurized propane. If the control valve is in the off position, neither air nor propane is going to flow.
There is flow if the hoses are not pressurized. Even with the end of the hose is blocked off (attached to an appliance with a closed control valve), opening a valve to hoses which have not yet been brought up to even the low regulated pressure will still result in a brief surge.

I agree that this should not be a big surge, and was not the problem in this case at all.
Brian B-P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2016, 03:41 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 8,444
Quote:
Originally Posted by txruby77 View Post
I also moved that yellow plug on the quick connect forward a little to make sure the valve on the line was getting turned fully open. (not sure if hubby had it fully opened). Bottom line, its working now!
The description "yellow plug" seems a little strange, but the collar which is pushed back to allow the hose to be inserted or removed is what locks the connection together. The shutoff valve on low-pressure quick-connect outlets is normally designed so that you cannot turn the handle of the valve on unless the collar is fully forward. This is a safety feature to ensure that the user closes the valve before removing the hose.

It certainly sounds like the problem was simply that the hose was not fully engaged in the quick-connect outlet, so the outlet's valve was not fully open.

The only thing which is yellow in the Escape low-pressure propane outlet is the plug to keep dirt out of the outlet when no hose is connected. With the hose in place, the plug must not be in the outlet.


Quote:
Originally Posted by txruby77 View Post
Just curious, we leave the propane tanks on all the time, for the fridge when we are driving( we turn off when gassing up) and as a back up if AC power goes out while we are sightseeing. Is that what ya'll do also?
Yes.
Brian B-P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2016, 05:22 PM   #16
Senior Member
 
C&G in FL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Tampa Bay Area, Florida
Trailer: 2015 5.0TA
Posts: 1,372
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
There is flow if the hoses are not pressurized. Even with the end of the hose is blocked off (attached to an appliance with a closed control valve), opening a valve to hoses which have not yet been brought up to even the low regulated pressure will still result in a brief surge.

I agree that this should not be a big surge, and was not the problem in this case at all.
I'm not sure I would use the word "surge" to describe this situation. The volume of propane (regulated to low pressure) that will flow into a 10-foot air filled hose would be better described as a trickle rather than a surge. I have never opened an OPD valve slowly when changing a tank on my grill at home. I crank them open like I would a faucet and have never had the OPD safety mechanism activate, restricting flow. When the first OPD valves came on the market, I did put an older type fitting (left hand threads, no hose) in one and cranked it open to see what would happen and the balve did cut flow, but that is the ONLY time I have personally had an OPD valve restrict flow.
__________________
Carl
2015 F150 2.7 EcoBoost (Big Spot)
2015 5.0TA (Little Elsie)
"What a long, strange trip it's been....."
C&G in FL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2016, 05:35 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
LarryandLiz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Maple Ridge, BC, British Columbia
Trailer: 2014 17B;2012 Nissan Frontier SV 4
Posts: 560
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
The description "yellow plug" seems a little strange, but the collar which is pushed back to allow the hose to be inserted or removed is what locks the connection together. The shutoff valve on low-pressure quick-connect outlets is normally designed so that you cannot turn the handle of the valve on unless the collar is fully forward. This is a safety feature to ensure that the user closes the valve before removing the hose.

It certainly sounds like the problem was simply that the hose was not fully engaged in the quick-connect outlet, so the outlet's valve was not fully open.

The only thing which is yellow in the Escape low-pressure propane outlet is the plug to keep dirt out of the outlet when no hose is connected. With the hose in place, the plug must not be in the outlet.

Brian. I can see how the yellow plug contraption might have been an issue. It can get jammed thus impeding the valve.
LarryandLiz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2016, 09:18 PM   #18
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Trailer: 1979 Boler B1700
Posts: 8,444
Quote:
Originally Posted by C&G in FL View Post
I'm not sure I would use the word "surge" to describe this situation. The volume of propane (regulated to low pressure) that will flow into a 10-foot air filled hose would be better described as a trickle rather than a surge.
So we agree that there would be flow, but only a pretty small surge, and that's why I can believe that the entire problem in this case was not having the outlet valve fully open - nothing to do with excess flow valve at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by C&G in FL View Post
I crank them open like I would a faucet and have never had the OPD safety mechanism activate, restricting flow. When the first OPD valves came on the market...
The OPD mechanism (Overfill Prevention Device) is not what restricts flow when it surges - the OPD is the float-activated valve that shuts off to avoid over-filling. I realize that many people call modern propane tank valve assemblies "OPD" valves, even when talking about other valves in the system. The valve which restricts flow in the event of a surge is the excess flow valve; these have been around much longer than OPDs or QCC connectors. There are lots of valves in propane systems now: four in the brass assembly screwed into the top of the tank (service, OPD, purge or bleed, and whatever you call the one opened by insertion of the hose end), plus one in the end of the hose attached to it (excess flow).

The sensitivity of the excess flow valve depends on threshold flow for which it is designed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
... the QCC connectors come in three colours:
  • black: 50 SCFM or 100,000 BTU/hr
  • green: 100 SCFM or 200,000 BTU/hr
  • red: 200 SCFM or 400,000 BTU/hr
Escape uses green.
Brian B-P is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2016, 11:09 PM   #19
Senior Member
 
C&G in FL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Tampa Bay Area, Florida
Trailer: 2015 5.0TA
Posts: 1,372
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
So we agree that there would be flow....
No, we are not in agreement. Slight movement perhaps, but not flow which is generally defined (see dictionary) as continuous, so I would still say that in the scenario in question there is no "flow."
Yes, I, like many people, refer to the structure on the top of a propane cylinder as the OPD valve, as do many in the propane industry. And it is probably not a good practice because the structure is much more complicated than just a valve that prevents the overfilling of the tank. Then again, I would suspect that most members of this forum could care less about the complexity of the mechanism or have the need to understand how every component part functions. They just want their propane appliances to work properly when needed.
__________________
Carl
2015 F150 2.7 EcoBoost (Big Spot)
2015 5.0TA (Little Elsie)
"What a long, strange trip it's been....."
C&G in FL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2016, 01:25 PM   #20
Senior Member
 
bdornbush's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Santa Rosa, California
Trailer: 2015 19 foot
Posts: 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian B-P View Post
The only thing which is yellow in the Escape low-pressure propane outlet is the plug to keep dirt out of the outlet when no hose is connected. With the hose in place, the plug must not be in the outlet.
The tether for the plug is also yellow. I learned that you must position it properly to be able to open the valve as the valve overlaps with the tether and you must position the tether in the space provided for it on the valve handle.
__________________

__________________
Bill Dornbush
http://dornbush.net
bdornbush is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off






» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:46 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2012 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.