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Old 01-29-2015, 09:38 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Rossue View Post
Problem fixed: having the hub machined resolved the wheel locking up. Now have the P3 set at Boost 1 and 4.8.
Excellent!
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Old 03-31-2016, 12:26 PM   #22
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Hmmmmmm. I just took delivery of my 2016 21'

When setting up the brake controller I had NO boost, and setting at 12. Wheels would NOT lock, when I triggered the trailer brakes, it would slow down, but that was it.

Tug is a Toyota Tundra, P3 brake controller, Should I lower setting and increase the Boost to 1? and try again?
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Old 03-31-2016, 12:33 PM   #23
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Sorry I have a prodigy P2 controller. But again, I thought as I was setting it up, I should have trailer brake lock when brake is manually triggered.

Even set at 12 volts, when I trigger the trailer brakes, they do slow my tug down some, but not a significant pull. NO Boost setting.

Trailer literally just came off the truck from Dave on Saturday.

Should I have the controller checked, Trailer brakes? Or should I restart setting with a boost on?

Thanks everyone
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Old 03-31-2016, 12:43 PM   #24
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Hi Don- Congrats on the new 21! Just checked Dexter's Electric Brake Pdf:

Before any synchronization(with your TV's brakes) can occur you have to burnish in the brakes by applying the brakes 20-30 times with approximately 20 mph decrease in speed, e.g. 40 -20 mph. Allow ample time for brakes to cool between application. This allows the brake shoes and magnets to slightly "wear in" to the drum surfaces.

Also, you should adjust the brakes after 200 miles.

They mention that lock up and grabbiness or harshness can be caused by lack of synchronization, too high of a threshold voltage (over 2 volts), or under adjusted brakes.

I understand that you are saying they are not braking enough, however that still may very well be due to them not being synchronized.
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Old 03-31-2016, 01:12 PM   #25
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Sorry I have a prodigy P2 controller. But again, I thought as I was setting it up, I should have trailer brake lock when brake is manually triggered.
Again, from Dexter:

BRAKES - Why can't I lock and slide my electric brakes?
On an unloaded trailer, you may be able to lock up your brakes if your electric brake controller is supplying full amperage to the brakes. When loaded to capacity, you may not be able to lock your brakes as electric brakes are designed to slow the trailer at a controlled rate, and not designed to lock up the wheels on a fully loaded trailer. Our brakes are designed to meet all applicable safety standards. All of our brakes will perform better after numerous burnish stops to seat the brake linings to the drums.
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Old 03-31-2016, 01:29 PM   #26
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When setting up the brake controller I had NO boost, and setting at 12. Wheels would NOT lock, when I triggered the trailer brakes, it would slow down, but that was it.

Tug is a Toyota Tundra...
Although adjusting the controller gain so that the trailer's wheels lock up under full manual application is standard procedure, it really isn't a very good method to get the right amount of braking. Whether they lock up depends on factors such as tire traction which have nothing to do with the right setting.

Fundamentally the lack of lock-up just means that you are not getting enough braking action to overcome the available traction. What you want has nothing to do with traction: you want the trailer brakes doing their share of the braking work.

Usually this happens when the trailer has a relatively high load on the tires compared to the size of the brakes - my Boler's brakes work fine but have never been able to lock up the tires on pavement - but that shouldn't be the case with the Escape 21' (since it has four 10" brakes on a relatively light trailer). It seems likely to me that the brakes are just not working well yet, either due to adjustment or a need for the shoes to be to be "worn in".

I ended up adjusting the controller based on feel: the adjustment is right when it only takes a bit more force on the tug's brake pedal to slow down than it would without the trailer. With a relatively heavy tug, this can be hard to judge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don W. View Post
Should I have the controller checked, Trailer brakes? Or should I restart setting with a boost on?
It's unlikely that there's anything wrong with the controller. Is there is any point in the wiring where you can get at the brake wire (positive side) while the trailer is plugged into the tug? If so, check the voltage when the manual lever of the controller is fully applied - if it goes to about 12 volts, the controller is doing what it can.

Yes, as Ross explained the brakes may need some work.

The boost setting of the Prodigy series controllers is just a pulse of extra output when the brakes are first applied, to make the braking action more responsive; it doesn't make any difference to maximum output, or steady-state output if steady braking is continued. Manual application of the lever on the controller overrides the acceleration-proportional and boost signals, so boost should be irrelevant to the setup process.
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Old 06-02-2017, 04:44 PM   #27
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Climbing down into Osoyoos for the rally, our P3 suddenly displayed "Overload No Brakes". After my heart climbed back down outta my throat I realized that we did indeed still have trailer brakes. I tried making a boost adjustment and a gain adjustment but neither took away the fault warning. Finally I put it in trouble shooting mode and watched amp and then voltage outputs and saw that they were both normal. When we finally had cell coverage and then when I got thru to Teckonska, they put me thru to a tech. After asking a few questions he said to send it in for a replacement. I told him that we were on the road and I was fine with leaving it in trouble shooting mode as long as he didn't think there was any danger of it failing completely. He said it would be fine.

I got the feeling by how fast he went to a replacement that this might be a problem they have seen before.
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Old 06-02-2017, 10:24 PM   #28
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Climbing down into Osoyoos for the rally, our P3 suddenly displayed "Overload No Brakes". After my heart climbed back down outta my throat I realized that we did indeed still have trailer brakes. I tried making a boost adjustment and a gain adjustment but neither took away the fault warning. Finally I put it in trouble shooting mode and watched amp and then voltage outputs and saw that they were both normal. When we finally had cell coverage and then when I got thru to Teckonska, they put me thru to a tech. After asking a few questions he said to send it in for a replacement. I told him that we were on the road and I was fine with leaving it in trouble shooting mode as long as he didn't think there was any danger of it failing completely. He said it would be fine.

I got the feeling by how fast he went to a replacement that this might be a problem they have seen before.
Timely post....Our P3 started displaying the "Overload No Brakes" error message last summer. Had the trailer brakes redone, checked the wiring on the trailer and tow vehicle but would still get the message intermittently, was driving me nuts. Just got the new one from E trailer in the mail today, installed it and it looks like I'm good to go. Scott

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Old 06-12-2017, 03:21 PM   #29
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I want to give kudos to Tekonsha for customer service. I called today about sending mine in for the replacement the tech said they would provide when our problem above started.

The tech I talked with today, asked for my serial number, and then said that a new one would be shipped out and that they would also provide a return label for the return of the defective one.
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Old 06-12-2017, 04:44 PM   #30
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Hmmmmmm. I just took delivery of my 2016 21'

When setting up the brake controller I had NO boost, and setting at 12. Wheels would NOT lock, when I triggered the trailer brakes, it would slow down, but that was it.

Tug is a Toyota Tundra, P3 brake controller, Should I lower setting and increase the Boost to 1? and try again?
FWIW, for balanced braking on my 17B/Pilot my P2 is set at 9. Maybe there is a big difference between P2 and P3 settings? On my old trailer I had it set at 8-9 as well, so it seems right in the ballpark.

I don't use the "lock up" method of checking trailer brakes. The 15" wheel/tire setup is large enough to provide a lot of contact with pavement so will be very hard to lock up.
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Old 06-21-2017, 09:00 PM   #31
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Woo Hoo, we have dependable brakes again! Turns out it wasn't the P3, it was a intermittent short in one of the brake magnets. Had the brakes completely redone last spring because that was the most likely culprit. But last camping season the problem became more frequent. Put the new controller on and had the same problems. Took the trailer back to the shop, and this time they found it. Now I'm a happy camper. Scott

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Old 06-22-2017, 08:19 AM   #32
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Scott, I'm wondering if I have the same problem. Tekonsha sent me a new P3, and shortly after we started out yesterday the dreaded Overload message was back. Do you know how they diagnosed the magnet problem?
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Old 06-22-2017, 09:26 AM   #33
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Woo Hoo, we have dependable brakes again! Turns out it wasn't the P3, it was a intermittent short in one of the brake magnets. Had the brakes completely redone last spring because that was the most likely culprit. But last camping season the problem became more frequent. Put the new controller on and had the same problems. Took the trailer back to the shop, and this time they found it. Now I'm a happy camper. Scott
Can you tell us what "Had the brakes completely redone last spring..." means? All new backing plates or? I would think they found the bad magnet using a voltmeter.
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Old 06-22-2017, 11:13 AM   #34
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Scott, I'm wondering if I have the same problem. Tekonsha sent me a new P3, and shortly after we started out yesterday the dreaded Overload message was back. Do you know how they diagnosed the magnet problem?
It was a frustrating process. With the trailer not moving everything would check out fine with the multimeter. The short would only occur when towing, maybe because the movement of the suspension? Here is a good link for troubleshooting the short: https://www.etrailer.com/faq-testing...-function.aspx

Good luck, hope it’s an easy fix. Scott
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Old 06-24-2017, 12:22 AM   #35
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Can you tell us what "Had the brakes completely redone last spring..." means? All new backing plates or? I would think they found the bad magnet using a voltmeter.
Found the work order from last June. They checked the brake system for a short, adjusted the brakes and installed new bearings. Some history:

On our inaugural trip home in the fall of 2014 we had zero problems with the P3 or the brakes until we hit Dease Lake which was seven days into the trip home. Got the "Overload No Brakes" three more times before arriving home and putting the trailer to bed for the winter.

Doubting my wiring skills, I ran a new harness on the tow vehicle with a dedicated ground but still got the "Overload" message more frequently and for longer periods of time during the 2015 camping season.

Dropped the trailer off at a very reputable shop here in town June, 2016 where they checked for a short and did the above work. Got the trailer back and still was getting the error when towing. With the truck and trailer sitting in the driveway everything would check out okay with the P3 and multimeter. My thought process this last winter was "these guys do this for a living, they have all tools and experience". So when we got the trailer out of storage this year I was once again focused on the tow vehicle.

Using Google fu I learned there were a bunch of bad P3 controllers floating around out there that were giving the "Overload" message so as a last resort I ordered a new one and still got no love. This time I dropped off the truck and trailer so the shop could drive it and the trailer around, replicate and hopefully diagnose the problem. It took them two days to find the short in the brakes. It would only short when the trailer was moving. They were not very forthcoming where they found the short.

As I said in a earlier post I've been chasing this brake problem for a couple of years now but have learned a lot and have gotten very proficient with a meter and I will be giving the brake wires a good tug if this ever happens again. If you do get a short in the brakes be sure to check your breakaway switch, the short fried ours. Scott

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Old 06-24-2017, 08:47 AM   #36
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Thanks Scott. I heard from Tammy that another owner just had the problem and Dexter sent them to an authorized service center where the found a cut/loose wire apparently or at the magnet (not sure exactly where) I'm going to get in touch with Dexter next week.


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Old 06-24-2017, 12:06 PM   #37
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Found the work order from last June. They checked the brake system for a short, adjusted the brakes and installed new bearings. Some history:

On our inaugural trip home in the fall of 2014 we had zero problems with the P3 or the brakes until we hit Dease Lake which was seven days into the trip home. Got the "Overload No Brakes" three more times before arriving home and putting the trailer to bed for the winter.

Doubting my wiring skills, I ran a new harness on the tow vehicle with a dedicated ground but still got the "Overload" message more frequently and for longer periods of time during the 2015 camping season.

Dropped the trailer off at a very reputable shop here in town June, 2016 where they checked for a short and did the above work. Got the trailer back and still was getting the error when towing. With the truck and trailer sitting in the driveway everything would check out okay with the P3 and multimeter. My thought process this last winter was "these guys do this for a living, they have all tools and experience". So when we got the trailer out of storage this year I was once again focused on the tow vehicle.

Using Google fu I learned there were a bunch of bad P3 controllers floating around out there that were giving the "Overload" message so as a last resort I ordered a new one and still got no love. This time I dropped off the truck and trailer so the shop could drive it and the trailer around, replicate and hopefully diagnose the problem. It took them two days to find the short in the brakes. It would only short when the trailer was moving. They were not very forthcoming where they found the short.

As I said in a earlier post I've been chasing this brake problem for a couple of years now but have learned a lot and have gotten very proficient with a meter and I will be giving the brake wires a good tug if this ever happens again. If you do get a short in the brakes be sure to check your breakaway switch, the short fried ours. Scott

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Thanks for the background - that had to have been frustrating. Towards the end of our last 3K mile trip I noticed the tug felt like it was doing most of the braking. Fortunately the terrain was mostly flatland driving. Usually have the P3 set around 6 and while using the slide would trigger braking it just wasn't enough from the pedal at the 6 setting. Lot of things could cause this of course, including a bad ground, which would be enough to power the lights on trailer but negatively affect braking as there is much more voltage draw.

Went through the diagnostics setting and saw the output was 0.3 volts. Not seeing any range of values depicted in the manual I called Cequent Customer Support and spoke with Pete. When told of the output value he said "something is wrong". Starting at the top he had me set the brake level up to maximum, which was 14. Then he had me go to output value and it was 13.5- but not by pushing the brake pedal- but by using the slide on the P3. That was the difference. Set it back to 6 and had similar output voltage. Mentioned that prior to calling I adjusted the brakes and all were loose. With Susan in the car and engine running I would spin a wheel then she braked and I could turn the wheel while she was braking. So I adjusted and then repeated the pedal test and I could not turn the wheel. Did same for other wheels. He felt all was fine; need to roadtest to be positive.

One of the interesting things Pete said was that he did not care where the P3 brake power level was- it was all about where it was effective- that being determined by going 25 mph and throwing the slide. On pavement he said. So it could be 3.5, 6 or 9 or ?

Also asked him about the average life span of the brakes/magnets and predictably, as with autos that is dependent on many variables. He did say that one would usually wear out a couple sets of shoes before magnets were worn out. Compared that with a vehicle doing same vs. needing wheel cylinder. Made sense to me.

With the problem Old Skool encountered(while in warranty) Dexter is the one to call and my experience with them has been the best of any component mfg. that Escape uses. Connie Massie there is outstanding and her only concern is making things right. Now that I am out of warranty I am going to take the multi meter out of its packaging and learn to use it should I encounter the Overload message.
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Old 06-24-2017, 01:55 PM   #38
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Thanks for the background - that had to have been frustrating. Towards the end of our last 3K mile trip I noticed the tug felt like it was doing most of the braking. Fortunately the terrain was mostly flatland driving. Usually have the P3 set around 6 and while using the slide would trigger braking it just wasn't enough from the pedal at the 6 setting. Lot of things could cause this of course, including a bad ground, which would be enough to power the lights on trailer but negatively affect braking as there is much more voltage draw.

Went through the diagnostics setting and saw the output was 0.3 volts. Not seeing any range of values depicted in the manual I called Cequent Customer Support and spoke with Pete. When told of the output value he said "something is wrong". Starting at the top he had me set the brake level up to maximum, which was 14. Then he had me go to output value and it was 13.5- but not by pushing the brake pedal- but by using the slide on the P3. That was the difference. Set it back to 6 and had similar output voltage. Mentioned that prior to calling I adjusted the brakes and all were loose. With Susan in the car and engine running I would spin a wheel then she braked and I could turn the wheel while she was braking. So I adjusted and then repeated the pedal test and I could not turn the wheel. Did same for other wheels. He felt all was fine; need to roadtest to be positive.

One of the interesting things Pete said was that he did not care where the P3 brake power level was- it was all about where it was effective- that being determined by going 25 mph and throwing the slide. On pavement he said. So it could be 3.5, 6 or 9 or ?

Also asked him about the average life span of the brakes/magnets and predictably, as with autos that is dependent on many variables. He did say that one would usually wear out a couple sets of shoes before magnets were worn out. Compared that with a vehicle doing same vs. needing wheel cylinder. Made sense to me.

With the problem Old Skool encountered(while in warranty) Dexter is the one to call and my experience with them has been the best of any component mfg. that Escape uses. Connie Massie there is outstanding and her only concern is making things right. Now that I am out of warranty I am going to take the multi meter out of its packaging and learn to use it should I encounter the Overload message.
I think that the shop, (which is an authorized Dexter dealer) realized that they dropped the ball last June. They said it was one of more challenging shorts that they have had to chase. They reimbursed me for last Junes visit and everything but the bearings. They did not charge me for a new breakaway switch or the recent two days of labor. Just happy that the truck and trailer are playing nice with each other again. Scott

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Old 06-24-2017, 03:30 PM   #39
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P3 errors and brake wiring troubles

This is an important thread to have available. Thanks, Ross, Scott, Eric, and others, for posting the path through diagnosing potential troubles, and solutions found. I'm sure going to bookmark it.

Moderators: any chance this thread can be re-titled to maybe make it easier to find in the future?
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Old 06-24-2017, 05:41 PM   #40
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...
Went through the diagnostics setting and saw the output was 0.3 volts.
Under what conditions? When there is no deceleration, there is no trailer braking needed, so the controller delivers no output... well, except that a Prodigy holds a small output (I think as long as the brake lights are on) to hold the trailer when stopped on a slope.

Quote:
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Not seeing any range of values depicted in the manual I called Cequent Customer Support and spoke with Pete. When told of the output value he said "something is wrong". Starting at the top he had me set the brake level up to maximum, which was 14. Then he had me go to output value and it was 13.5- but not by pushing the brake pedal- but by using the slide on the P3. That was the difference. Set it back to 6 and had similar output voltage.
Sure, because what the manual lever does when fully applied is put out the voltage corresponding to the gain setting. The gain setting numbers are volts at maximum braking (meaning either the highest deceleration expected, or full application of the manual lever).

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One of the interesting things Pete said was that he did not care where the P3 brake power level was- it was all about where it was effective- that being determined by going 25 mph and throwing the slide. On pavement he said. So it could be 3.5, 6 or 9 or ?
Yes, the voltage required from the controller depends on the effectiveness of the brakes (due to size and condition), and the mass of trailer to be braked. With two axles of 10"x2¼" brakes and less than three tons, and tandem-axle Escape should not need a very high setting.
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